M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[kgray]

This bugs me.

@damo, what was your reasoning for those four?

the least townread

You don't think rdr belongs in this list?

[rdrivera2005]

I always feel judged by hypothetical god thread people spectating at this point in the game if I'm wrong, but I just don't think I can consider 4d chess moves right now, when separate distinct scumtells all point to at least one of Rdrivera and Fox being scum.
I'll start with ##Vote Rdrivera

If yiu want to waste the last myslynch on me go ahead.
I am pretty sure at least one of you, Xorxes and Balki are scum, probably two (and are keeping the other alive as a cover). There is no possible scumteam that will lynch Brain, Worcej and Chaqa before you three if you are all town.

I don't disagree that one of them could be scum, but that reason you give is very poor. If you were scum. you could keep us three alive so you could make this very argument. And would you really kill someone that has a good chance of being watched?

Yes, if I am scum I would keep you three alive so you can lynch me? Seems believable.
I already answered about the Watcher to Balki.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Among the D3 emc voters, it seems damo and kgray are not getting much attention, although they were the only 2 who did not vote for Bob at any time D3. damo was actively trying to get emc lynched over Bob at EOD, something I have pointed out he has been willing to do before as scum.

##VOTE damo

I think Damo is a worthy vote. But I don't think "never voted for Bob" is a good reason. Like I said in my earlier response to you -- I think that "distancing" is very likely behavior from Scum on Day 3. Everyone had flexibility to move around, without many fixed or committed views on the two generally lurky players. So I think the votes on Bob, and then the votes off of Bob when it counted, for Foxy and rdrivera, makes it more likely that Fox/RdRivera are scum.

[kgray]

Well, I did say that there had to be someone in my townreads who was scum. Then Chaqa died. Then you and Damo were left at the bottom of my reads non-scum reads.

Okay, so do you think it makes sense for either me or damo specifically to be Balki's partner? Or is this just based on you POE?

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Do you really think that scum are that worried with the Watcher to avoid at all costs lynching someone obvious? And they don't fear that after 3 nights the Watcher could also change his strategy? I call this bullshit and a cover

You've been scum before. Watchers, Trackers, Cops, Doctors -- of course this plays a role in the NK.

[rdrivera2005]

Among the D3 emc voters, it seems damo and kgray are not getting much attention, although they were the only 2 who did not vote for Bob at any time D3. damo was actively trying to get emc lynched over Bob at EOD, something I have pointed out he has been willing to do before as scum.

##VOTE damo

I think Damo is a worthy vote. But I don't think "never voted for Bob" is a good reason. Like I said in my earlier response to you -- I think that "distancing" is very likely behavior from Scum on Day 3. Everyone had flexibility to move around, without many fixed or committed views on the two generally lurky players. So I think the votes on Bob, and then the votes off of Bob when it counted, for Foxy and rdrivera, makes it more likely that Fox/RdRivera are scum.

I just can't believe your logic because I know I am not scum. I just don't know if you are tunneling or you are actively trying to setup the two final myslynches.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Okay, so do you think it makes sense for either me or damo specifically to be Balki's partner? Or is this just based on you POE?

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

You can't possibly think that it is a Balki/Xorx scum team.

Why on Earth did both of us bus Bob? We would have had an easy, clean victory by lynching EMC D3.

This is bananas.

[rdrivera2005]

Do you really think that scum are that worried with the Watcher to avoid at all costs lynching someone obvious? And they don't fear that after 3 nights the Watcher could also change his strategy? I call this bullshit and a cover

You've been scum before. Watchers, Trackers, Cops, Doctors -- of course this plays a role in the NK.

Yes, but we don't have any of them other then the Watcher. Even a 1 x 1 with the Watcher isn't a bad deal for scum at this point , I think.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Okay, I am going to run for a bit.

If we don't lynch Fox today, we are a silly bunch.

[Foxcastle]

Okay, so do you think it makes sense for either me or damo specifically to be Balki's partner? Or is this just based on you POE?

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

I did say "theory." At some point, you have to walk the line between "everything is WIFOM, we can never know anything" and "this unprovable theory is absolutely true."

Given that this is a fairly novel approach for the scumteam to take, I think it makes sense to think about what conditions would have changed. One of the conditions most likely to lead to that response, I think, is what I described above.

[Foxcastle]

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

You can't possibly think that it is a Balki/Xorx scum team.

Why on Earth did both of us bus Bob? We would have had an easy, clean victory by lynching EMC D3.

This is bananas.

I didn't say team. I have been clear that I think Xorxes is likely Patient Zero.

[kgray]

Among the D3 emc voters, it seems damo and kgray are not getting much attention, although they were the only 2 who did not vote for Bob at any time D3. damo was actively trying to get emc lynched over Bob at EOD, something I have pointed out he has been willing to do before as scum.

##VOTE damo

I think Damo is a worthy vote. But I don't think "never voted for Bob" is a good reason. Like I said in my earlier response to you -- I think that "distancing" is very likely behavior from Scum on Day 3. Everyone had flexibility to move around, without many fixed or committed views on the two generally lurky players. So I think the votes on Bob, and then the votes off of Bob when it counted, for Foxy and rdrivera, makes it more likely that Fox/RdRivera are scum.

I just can't believe your logic because I know I am not scum. I just don't know if you are tunneling or you are actively trying to setup the two final myslynches.

You don't think this logic is worth considering when it comes to Fox?

[rdrivera2005]

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

You can't possibly think that it is a Balki/Xorx scum team.

Why on Earth did both of us bus Bob? We would have had an easy, clean victory by lynching EMC D3.

This is bananas.

I don't know if you both are scum, as I said, a smart move from both of you would be to let the other alive so you can sell this Watcher thing.
And I already told you that bussing Bob is exactly what I expect a smart scum to do.

[Foxcastle]

Everyone, ask yourselves why Balki is working so hard to put words in my mouth and make people think I'm saying things I'm not. Think very carefully about the motivation that drives that.

[xorxes]

Do you really think that scum are that worried with the Watcher to avoid at all costs lynching someone obvious? And they don't fear that after 3 nights the Watcher could also change his strategy? I call this bullshit and a cover

You've been scum before. Watchers, Trackers, Cops, Doctors -- of course this plays a role in the NK.

Trackers and Cops there's not much scum can do about other than trying to find them out. Doctor they can try to outguess, but guessing wrong is not critical. Watcher they desperately need to outguess or they get caught. I'm sure rivera is aware of this.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Do you really think that scum are that worried with the Watcher to avoid at all costs lynching someone obvious? And they don't fear that after 3 nights the Watcher could also change his strategy? I call this bullshit and a cover

You've been scum before. Watchers, Trackers, Cops, Doctors -- of course this plays a role in the NK.

Yes, but we don't have any of them other then the Watcher. Even a 1 x 1 with the Watcher isn't a bad deal for scum at this point , I think.

Are you kidding?!

A 1 for 1 with the Watcher is a good deal for scum? Why on Earth? You are saying scum would rather get caught making their night kill so that they can know who Watcher is?

[kgray]

Oh, I have a theory about you specifically, being a a new player. (Not judging your skills, just your newness to this group.) I think that makes it more important that Balki target the unusual suspects for the NK, because with Sulit lurking and then Bob lurking, and with you being new, it was even more important that he create plausible deniability about why he and Xorxes hadn't been NK'd as game goes on, because if he and Xorxes go down, their game is left in the hands of a lurker and an unknown quantity.

Fox, this is not a very good argument. There are so many reasons why the scumteam wouldn't target "obvious" night kills. Do you really think this is the most likely explanation?

I did say "theory." At some point, you have to walk the line between "everything is WIFOM, we can never know anything" and "this unprovable theory is absolutely true."

Given that this is a fairly novel approach for the scumteam to take, I think it makes sense to think about what conditions would have changed. One of the conditions most likely to lead to that response, I think, is what I described above.

This really seems a lot like you're trying to come up with reasons to justify why I could be scum, rather than suspecting I'm scum based on anything I've done. I honestly can't believe that at this stage in the game, with everything we've learned, you're considering this seriously.

[Jamiet99uk]

RIP Chaqa

Slightly odd kill.

If I was scum I would have considered Chaqa a possible mislynch.

[rdrivera2005]

I think Damo is a worthy vote. But I don't think "never voted for Bob" is a good reason. Like I said in my earlier response to you -- I think that "distancing" is very likely behavior from Scum on Day 3. Everyone had flexibility to move around, without many fixed or committed views on the two generally lurky players. So I think the votes on Bob, and then the votes off of Bob when it counted, for Foxy and rdrivera, makes it more likely that Fox/RdRivera are scum.

I just can't believe your logic because I know I am not scum. I just don't know if you are tunneling or you are actively trying to setup the two final myslynches.

You don't think this logic is worth considering when it comes to Fox?

Like I said many times before, I don't put much weight on voting on Bob or not as the main reason to scumread people. For me the right scum play was bussing Bob, he will be lynched one way or another and scum knows it. I find weird good players like Flum and Balki pushing that hard that everybody voting Bob is town

[xorxes]

RIP Chaqa

Slightly odd kill.

If I was scum I would have considered Chaqa a possible mislynch.

Yes, all the kills have been odd.