M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[Fluminator]

lmao

[Jamiet99uk]

Excuse me, Fluminator, but just to remind you:

- I voted for you during D1. (Page 21)

- I listed you as SCUM (in bold red colour just like that) in my reads during Night 2. (Page 85)

- When you voted EMC during D3 I accused you of bussing him. (Page 90)

- In my D3 reads list I listed you as scum. (Page 103)

Tell me, please, how did all of this give you the impression that I was, and I quote, "treating you as town"??

I'm fascinated.

Are you a bad liar, or a bad reader? Which is it?

[Fluminator]

I think the cabin fever is getting to me.
This game is literally making me lol

[Foxcastle]

Damn you Fox, your meta argument is garbage. Read M1006. You little sneak.

Ah, I missed those, yes. I retract the claim that there's no evidence in M1006 of you mentioning confrontation.

I still find it beyond belief that you could be town this game when you have near quotes of your M46 scum game. At best, your read of me is utterly untrustworty because you've demonstrated that you can and will make it as scum. At worst (for you), it's essentially a scumslip. I definitely think it's the latter.

So you caught me as scum supposedly for being non-confrontational in M1006, and then in M46 you made a very believable push on me when I was town based on that exact same reading?

Sounds like maybe it's NAI, then. Town Balki would be smart enough to recognize that little logical fallacy, so I think scum Balki is trying to milk it.

[Fluminator]

Excuse me, Fluminator, but just to remind you:

- I voted for you during D1. (Page 21)

- I listed you as SCUM (in bold red colour just like that) in my reads during Night 2. (Page 85)

- When you voted EMC during D3 I accused you of bussing him. (Page 90)

- In my D3 reads list I listed you as scum. (Page 103)

Tell me, please, how did all of this give you the impression that I was, and I quote, "treating you as town"??

I'm fascinated.

Are you a bad liar, or a bad reader? Which is it?

wait what?
Why have you never pushed for me then?

[Jamiet99uk]

Excuse me, Fluminator, but just to remind you:

- I voted for you during D1. (Page 21)

- I listed you as SCUM (in bold red colour just like that) in my reads during Night 2. (Page 85)

- When you voted EMC during D3 I accused you of bussing him. (Page 90)

- In my D3 reads list I listed you as scum. (Page 103)

Tell me, please, how did all of this give you the impression that I was, and I quote, "treating you as town"??

I'm fascinated.

Are you a bad liar, or a bad reader? Which is it?

wait what?
Why have you never pushed for me then?

You haven't generally been my *top* scumread but I have consistently scumread you.

Tell me where I listed you as a townread in this game.

Quote the page.

You are making up bullshit and it's very strange.

[kgray]

@Jamie, can you give some reasons for why you think Flum is scum? I wasn't able to find where you explain that read in the bot.

[Fluminator]

K whatever, Jamiet I'm town. Move on. I'll read you more closely from now on, but I generally disagree with all your reads.
You're probably just scum reading me because you're still angry for the time I trolled the forum with "rank the sexual orientations" thread.

Balki, get a better strategy than town reading people who scumread you. Do you essentially copy and paste that every game lmao? Now I know why you refuse to scum read Chaqa. You probably just got lucky this time if Fox is scum.

Fox, I'm not super convinced of your meta case sorry

[Jamiet99uk]

Ok I also tried to get BunnyGo to vote Flum with me on page 113.

Check it out, all my references are correct.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie, can you give some reasons for why you think Flum is scum? I wasn't able to find where you explain that read in the bot.

I haven't done a detailed case on him yet but perhaps now I need to.

He mostly seems to be hedgy and insincere, I think he tried to bus EMC (who I'm pretty sure is scum) and his interactions with Balki are nauseating.

Now I'm really concerned as to how he could claim he thought I was townreading him, when I repeatedly stated the opposite.

[kgray]

@Jamie, can you give some reasons for why you think Flum is scum? I wasn't able to find where you explain that read in the bot.

I haven't done a detailed case on him yet but perhaps now I need to.

He mostly seems to be hedgy and insincere, I think he tried to bus EMC (who I'm pretty sure is scum) and his interactions with Balki are nauseating.

Now I'm really concerned as to how he could claim he thought I was townreading him, when I repeatedly stated the opposite.

Please do, I am interested in what you find.

Do you think town or scum is more likely to miss someone scumreading them?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Damn you Fox, your meta argument is garbage. Read M1006. You little sneak.

Ah, I missed those, yes. I retract the claim that there's no evidence in M1006 of you mentioning confrontation.

I still find it beyond belief that you could be town this game when you have near quotes of your M46 scum game. At best, your read of me is utterly untrustworty because you've demonstrated that you can and will make it as scum. At worst (for you), it's essentially a scumslip. I definitely think it's the latter.

Can you find a quote in a Scum!Balki game where I read you as scum because you voted near the end of a day to try to save your scumbucket partner?

Cause that's the main reason I think we should lynch you.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Damn you Fox, your meta argument is garbage. Read M1006. You little sneak.

Ah, I missed those, yes. I retract the claim that there's no evidence in M1006 of you mentioning confrontation.

I still find it beyond belief that you could be town this game when you have near quotes of your M46 scum game. At best, your read of me is utterly untrustworty because you've demonstrated that you can and will make it as scum. At worst (for you), it's essentially a scumslip. I definitely think it's the latter.

So you caught me as scum supposedly for being non-confrontational in M1006, and then in M46 you made a very believable push on me when I was town based on that exact same reading?

Sounds like maybe it's NAI, then. Town Balki would be smart enough to recognize that little logical fallacy, so I think scum Balki is trying to milk it.

Exactly. It's NAI.

Which is exactly what I said two pages ago, dude:

This is the definition of NAI.

I'm not trying to milk anything.

[Balki Bartokomous]

You haven't generally been my *top* scumread but I have consistently scumread you.

Tell me where I listed you as a townread in this game.

Quote the page.

You are making up bullshit and it's very strange.

If Jamiet is indeed Town, I hope that we all take the time in the GOD thread after the game to recite some of the things that Jamiet has said about various alignments of folks all game.

It might end up being that he was some kind of soothsayer, but my sense is that he's just ridiculously wrong about generally everything.

[rdrivera2005]

I never faked a townslip and I dare you to find it. Based on your own logic to lynch Vecna you are lying and should be lynched...

And I don't believe on town slips and have stated this more then once in other games.

That's true you have stated that, even in the game where you did townslip.

I understand that when you and Chaqa say "I don't believe in townslips" you don't mean you don't believe that they exist, but rather that you don't believe that they are a useful way to sort someone because they are usually easy to fake, so it is hard to tell the genuine ones (that obviously do exist) from the fake ones (that also exist).

This and also that scum also makes mistakes that could be seen as a townslips (like make confusion with scum rules or number of scum).

[Foxcastle]

Ah, I missed those, yes. I retract the claim that there's no evidence in M1006 of you mentioning confrontation.

I still find it beyond belief that you could be town this game when you have near quotes of your M46 scum game. At best, your read of me is utterly untrustworty because you've demonstrated that you can and will make it as scum. At worst (for you), it's essentially a scumslip. I definitely think it's the latter.

So you caught me as scum supposedly for being non-confrontational in M1006, and then in M46 you made a very believable push on me when I was town based on that exact same reading?

Sounds like maybe it's NAI, then. Town Balki would be smart enough to recognize that little logical fallacy, so I think scum Balki is trying to milk it.

Exactly. It's NAI.

Which is exactly what I said two pages ago, dude:

This is the definition of NAI.

I'm not trying to milk anything.

So this whole "non-confrontation" thing that you've been pushing me hard on for most of game. You now say it's NAI?

[Foxcastle]

So you caught me as scum supposedly for being non-confrontational in M1006, and then in M46 you made a very believable push on me when I was town based on that exact same reading?

Sounds like maybe it's NAI, then. Town Balki would be smart enough to recognize that little logical fallacy, so I think scum Balki is trying to milk it.

Exactly. It's NAI.

Which is exactly what I said two pages ago, dude:

This is the definition of NAI.

I'm not trying to milk anything.

So this whole "non-confrontation" thing that you've been pushing me hard on for most of game. You now say it's NAI?

Because it sounds like you don't think it's NAI in this game. It's a major part of your scumread on me. It sounds like you think it makes me scum in this game, although it was clearly a ploy you used in M46 to try to make me look scummy when I wasn't.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki, get a better strategy than town reading people who scumread you. Do you essentially copy and paste that every game lmao? Now I know why you refuse to scum read Chaqa. You probably just got lucky this time if Fox is scum.

Dude -- I know it's crazy, but I'm telling you! It is surprisingly effective. I can't play a bunch of games back-to-back, I think, cause it would be pretty easy for scum to just decide to come after me to get a town read from me, but...somewhat shockingly, I have found this tool to be very effective.

I've caught a bunch of folks over at Playdip using the same frame of thinking.

Could be that I am totally off track this game, and this is the reason, but I think the principle is sound: Scum, in general, avoid confrontation with people who they think will expose them, avoid major conflicts, and try to blend. Town flails around in the dark, does not shy away from making people mad, doesn't keep as good of track over what their various and shifting views are of everyone's alignment. It's all part of the same general framework.

#IhopeIdontlookdumbinthegodthreadrightnow

[Foxcastle]

Yeah, I think this makes more sense.

In M1006, town-Balki sees my play as avoidant/non-confrontational/etc (which is similar to reads I often get). He uses it to successfully push me as scum.

I was searching for "confrontation" and not the terms he actually used when I reviewed that game, so thank you for pointing that out, Balki, because this is a much clearer indication that you are scum.

InM46, scum-Balki sees that behavior again, but he knows I'm town. Still, he knows it can work, he knows it's probably going to stick because I do behave the way he's going to scumread me. And so he does.

What makes Balki scum in this game is that he should know that me being "non-confrontational" is NAI, and if he were actually town, he would not have pushed that as part of his read. The fact that he is pushing it is scum indicative.

[Jamiet99uk]

You haven't generally been my *top* scumread but I have consistently scumread you.

Tell me where I listed you as a townread in this game.

Quote the page.

You are making up bullshit and it's very strange.

If Jamiet is indeed Town, I hope that we all take the time in the GOD thread after the game to recite some of the things that Jamiet has said about various alignments of folks all game.

It might end up being that he was some kind of soothsayer, but my sense is that he's just ridiculously wrong about generally everything.

Sure, just casually slander me.

That's excellent, helpful town play.

You're such a hero.