M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[Fluminator]

I've literally never played with a town fox before so it's hard to meta him which is one of my main ways of reading people.

His first scum game he was super obvious but Prado fell on his sword defending him.
Second scum game he was pretty good although he froze up at eod still.

He apparently has a lot of practice being scum lol. Maybe I'll do a meta dive on him.

[BunnyGo]

I’m pointing out he literally just answered. That’s different.

In the thing you were quoting.

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

[BunnyGo]

In the thing you were quoting.

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

Asking someone to elaborate logical tautologies is dull

[Foxcastle]

Can you tell me why you said this eleven pages ago, and how your views have changed since then?

I'm not sure that my view has changed. I like everything I see about your posting. It reassures me. It makes sense. It's good. I have not found a specific reason to really move you from the "strongly sensing town" category to the "this player is town for a specific reason," though. And you're good enough that that's what worries me, because I don't have a lot of strong scumreads at the moment, so a lot of what I am looking at for the lynch is POE/lurkers.

Hmmm, interesting.

I am still your strongest town read?

And this is your current read of me?

Schrodinger's scum. Good enough to be our best town while also being the deepest scum. If I were scum, I would absolutely fearkill him first. Except he has not really shown up to run this game down like he usually does...

That doesn't make sense to me.

But, putting that aside, I think you're scum. I feel like I always think you're scum for the same reason, but you also happen to have drawn scum for, it seems like, all of my recent games here. I think you're scum because you're avoiding confrontation and generally avoiding me. You're not leading. You're not passionate. You're not moving the action. You're just blandly commenting, keeping me in your town reads (with a little wiggle room for later).

You're playing like Scum!Fox.

Am I wrong?

You are still a strong town read. But Worcej and Damo in particular are somewhat stronger because there are concrete reasons I townread them. Xorxes and Flum are similarly strong townreads, but without solid reasons.

It doesn't have to make sense. It's based on a semi-rational fear that you're good enough to either just solve the shit out of the game, or alternately, win as scum by being townleader.

And you always think I'm scum! Although to be fair, you have caught me before, and there was one time you were scum and tried to get me mislynched. I'm not sure how many games we've really had when we're both town. But the time you were scum, you definitely understood my meta well enough to get people to try to mislynch me for being "present but not contributing." So if you're town, you really should know better. Or maybe I should know better and stop giving you credit for being a great player.

But no, I am not a leader. I don't bring a lot of confrontation here. I am definitely not passionate about a forum game that gets dragged down by a minority of players who make it less fun. Equating those qualities with town is foolish, though.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I’m pointing out he literally just answered. That’s different.

In the thing you were quoting.

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

No need. I can answer for myself.

I did not have any logical connection to draw between Tem flipping scum and worcej's alignment. But, as I think about it, if Tem flipped scum, I probably would have considered worcej to be more towny. Because worcej strongly called Tem town at a time when Tem was very likely to flip, and so it would have been an unusual time for scum to confidently defend a teammate.

Is that useful to you?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

Asking someone to elaborate logical tautologies is dull

+1

[Foxcastle]

I've literally never played with a town fox before so it's hard to meta him which is one of my main ways of reading people.

His first scum game he was super obvious but Prado fell on his sword defending him.
Second scum game he was pretty good although he froze up at eod still.

He apparently has a lot of practice being scum lol. Maybe I'll do a meta dive on him.

You need to unlatch from "freezes up at EOD". As you point out, you only have my scum games together to go off of, and often I watch EOD as town satisfied with where my vote is and observing. I do not need to be thrashing around making noise to be town.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I've literally never played with a town fox before so it's hard to meta him which is one of my main ways of reading people.

His first scum game he was super obvious but Prado fell on his sword defending him.
Second scum game he was pretty good although he froze up at eod still.

He apparently has a lot of practice being scum lol. Maybe I'll do a meta dive on him.

Drink a dopio espresso first. It gets boring quick.

[Foxcastle]

I've literally never played with a town fox before so it's hard to meta him which is one of my main ways of reading people.

His first scum game he was super obvious but Prado fell on his sword defending him.
Second scum game he was pretty good although he froze up at eod still.

He apparently has a lot of practice being scum lol. Maybe I'll do a meta dive on him.

Drink a dopio espresso first. It gets boring quick.

[Jamiet99uk]

In the thing you were quoting.

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

No he did not.

Read it again.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I don't think that Town!Fox would ever say that I am his strongest town read, in a game in which I have not lead a lynch on known scum.

Does that make sense?

My impression is that Fox thinks I'm a strong player. And I've noticed that he stays away from me in games where I am town and he's scum. He does not confront me. That's what I've seen here.

I expect the paranoia from him. And I expect it to manifest itself in him questioning things that I am doing. Here, he has just stayed away. And he oddly called me his strongest town read. I don't believe it.

[Jamiet99uk]

In the thing you were quoting.

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

No need. I can answer for myself.

I did not have any logical connection to draw between Tem flipping scum and worcej's alignment. But, as I think about it, if Tem flipped scum, I probably would have considered worcej to be more towny. Because worcej strongly called Tem town at a time when Tem was very likely to flip, and so it would have been an unusual time for scum to confidently defend a teammate.

Is that useful to you?

Ok, yes, thank you.

BunnyGo's reaction to me asking you this question was also quite interesting.

[Foxcastle]

I don't think that Town!Fox would ever say that I am his strongest town read, in a game in which I have not lead a lynch on known scum.

Does that make sense?

My impression is that Fox thinks I'm a strong player. And I've noticed that he stays away from me in games where I am town and he's scum. He does not confront me. That's what I've seen here.

I expect the paranoia from him. And I expect it to manifest itself in him questioning things that I am doing. Here, he has just stayed away. And he oddly called me his strongest town read. I don't believe it.

As spicy as you think you are, apparently I just didn't see a lot I felt the need to engage anything you've posted all that much. You've also been gone for long stretches, and I suspect that our time zones are different enough that we may be active at different times.

[BunnyGo]

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

No he did not.

Read it again.

Just did. I’m no longer a professor of mathematics teaching the logic class, but it’s definitely there. And this is definitely dull.

[BunnyGo]

I do not see the answer to my question.

Please point it out to me as you are so observant.

No need. I can answer for myself.

I did not have any logical connection to draw between Tem flipping scum and worcej's alignment. But, as I think about it, if Tem flipped scum, I probably would have considered worcej to be more towny. Because worcej strongly called Tem town at a time when Tem was very likely to flip, and so it would have been an unusual time for scum to confidently defend a teammate.

Is that useful to you?

Ok, yes, thank you.

BunnyGo's reaction to me asking you this question was also quite interesting.

Whatever. I actually got sucked into mafia on this site when it was public and I saw someone missing a logical connection and posted without knowing it was a game.

[Jamiet99uk]

He had stated an if and only if relationship between worcej being scum exactly when Tem was town and vice versa.

No he did not.

Read it again.

Just did. I’m no longer a professor of mathematics teaching the logic class, but it’s definitely there. And this is definitely dull.

He has answered it now, but only because I asked him to.

[Balki Bartokomous]

As spicy as you think you are, apparently I just didn't see a lot I felt the need to engage anything you've posted all that much. You've also been gone for long stretches, and I suspect that our time zones are different enough that we may be active at different times.

Why was I your strongest town read? Do you agree with me that this is odd? I expect the paranoia, especially when I haven't solved anything. Where is the paranoia?

[Jamiet99uk]

As spicy as you think you are, apparently I just didn't see a lot I felt the need to engage anything you've posted all that much. You've also been gone for long stretches, and I suspect that our time zones are different enough that we may be active at different times.

Why was I your strongest town read? Do you agree with me that this is odd? I expect the paranoia, especially when I haven't solved anything. Where is the paranoia?

You are his strongest townread, and he also thinks you could be Mafia.

Isn't that a liiiiiiiittttle bit paranoid?

[Balki Bartokomous]

As spicy as you think you are, apparently I just didn't see a lot I felt the need to engage anything you've posted all that much. You've also been gone for long stretches, and I suspect that our time zones are different enough that we may be active at different times.

Why was I your strongest town read? Do you agree with me that this is odd? I expect the paranoia, especially when I haven't solved anything. Where is the paranoia?

You are his strongest townread, and he also thinks you could be Mafia.

Isn't that a liiiiiiiittttle bit paranoid?

My theory:

He throws in some of the "but Balki is tricksy," "watch Balki" stuff a lot. That's what I expect to see from Fox. But if that paranoia is real, I expect it to manifest itself in questioning and confrontation (there is none f that). And I don't expect Town!Fox to write that I'm his strongest town read. I just can't get my head around that.

When I am playing with folks who I think are strong players, I just never have strong town reads on them. Never! Unless there are serious votes or mechanics that help that along.

[Foxcastle]

As spicy as you think you are, apparently I just didn't see a lot I felt the need to engage anything you've posted all that much. You've also been gone for long stretches, and I suspect that our time zones are different enough that we may be active at different times.

Why was I your strongest town read? Do you agree with me that this is odd? I expect the paranoia, especially when I haven't solved anything. Where is the paranoia?

Because it's early game (or has been, or still is for you, since you missed much of Day 2) and all we have had to go on is impressions and gut feelings, and you're doing everything right. Which is what town Balki would do. Which is also what I think scum Balki is capable of. So no, I don't think it's odd to both really like your play and be really worried that I'm terribly wrong.