M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

[BunnyGo]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Make a case. I'm sure you can put a convincing one together.

[BunnyGo]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Make a case. I'm sure you can put a convincing one together.

Actually, just provide me a summary of what you see in kgray's ISO so I can compare it when I go do my own. I'm interested in what gave you that conclusion.

[bozotheclown]

As for a reason: This is kinda out there, so bare with me - but I think andy is intentionally lurking. If we didn't hammer the day, he would've violated posting requirements on D2. I think he has checked in and contributed, but most likely in the mafia QT and not posting during night because he doesn't have to.

I do think Pjandy not being replaced already indicates he has somehow expressed that he does plan on continuing to play. Either that or there are no subs available.

[Chaqa]

I was beginning to sway off Vecna until he made his last 10 games claim. Bold faced lie made me decide he had to be scum thinking no one would call him on it. Nope, he’s just bad

I explained I made the change after he flat out lied about “look at the last 10 games I played” bit

I don't like how Chaqa is doubling down on this reason for his end vote when his last post before ending was:

I'm being annoyed by Vecna's attitude on this.

Flum, if you want to hammer, I guess I'll join, mainly to just get the information about this whole situation.

I get why town-Chaqa would be annoyed at Vecna's attitude, and I get why town-Chaqa would think that Vecna "lying" about his past games is scummy. But if Chaqa was so convinced about Vecna's lies being scum-indicative, and that's what made him decide to end the day, why does he say "I guess I'll join" as if he's reluctant to do so? He'd already "caught" Vecna lying at that point. And if he is reluctant, then why go through with the end vote? This post really makes it seem like he's trying to shift the responsibility towards Flum and away from himself. And finally, Chaqa literally states the main reason for his end vote is to get information. This directly contradicts his later statements.

@Chaqa, what information were you hoping to get? Did you get it? Can you explain why you changed your main reason for voting end from "getting info" to "Vecna lied"?

Information from the inevitable Vecna lynch faster I suppose.

Players who have played with me a lot know I don’t always have consistent reasoning ‍♂️

[Fluminator]

I'd be suggesting we hammer EMC today if it didn't mean Andy would avoid a replacement again.

[Fluminator]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Chaqa isn't lurking, how about you vote him?

[Fluminator]

I was beginning to sway off Vecna until he made his last 10 games claim. Bold faced lie made me decide he had to be scum thinking no one would call him on it. Nope, he’s just bad

I explained I made the change after he flat out lied about “look at the last 10 games I played” bit

I don't like how Chaqa is doubling down on this reason for his end vote when his last post before ending was:

I'm being annoyed by Vecna's attitude on this.

Flum, if you want to hammer, I guess I'll join, mainly to just get the information about this whole situation.

I get why town-Chaqa would be annoyed at Vecna's attitude, and I get why town-Chaqa would think that Vecna "lying" about his past games is scummy. But if Chaqa was so convinced about Vecna's lies being scum-indicative, and that's what made him decide to end the day, why does he say "I guess I'll join" as if he's reluctant to do so? He'd already "caught" Vecna lying at that point. And if he is reluctant, then why go through with the end vote? This post really makes it seem like he's trying to shift the responsibility towards Flum and away from himself. And finally, Chaqa literally states the main reason for his end vote is to get information. This directly contradicts his later statements.

@Chaqa, what information were you hoping to get? Did you get it? Can you explain why you changed your main reason for voting end from "getting info" to "Vecna lied"?

Information from the inevitable Vecna lynch faster I suppose.

Players who have played with me a lot know I don’t always have consistent reasoning ‍♂️

I don't remember this being a thing. Is this part of your meta shift you were talking about?

[Fluminator]

Is there any specific reason why that does not also apply to Flum?

No, but Fluminator is not a wagon. My comment was intended to communicate why I do not think xorxes or Chaqa are the best lynch candidates today.

I could get on a Flum wagon, but I think all agree that's for tomorrow...

Ooh, I'm excited to hear the case!

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Chaqa isn't lurking, how about you vote him?

I don’t really think he’s scum. Seems to be swimming upstream a lot.

What is the main reason you think he’s scum?

[BunnyGo]

No, but Fluminator is not a wagon. My comment was intended to communicate why I do not think xorxes or Chaqa are the best lynch candidates today.

I could get on a Flum wagon, but I think all agree that's for tomorrow...

Ooh, I'm excited to hear the case!

Tomorrow...I'll let you have a little more rope today.

[kgray]

@kgray,

I'd like you to push yourself to put some current reads in the thread. I just read your ISO. I see a lot of questioning, but not much in the way of sticking your neck out.

You were an early voter on Tem. And I thought your reasoning sounded plausible. But your play overall is coming across to me as timid and non-confrontational.

@Town, don't give kgray a free pass. I don't see much of a vector behind her questions. I feel like she's swimming in place a bit, which could suggest that she doesn't have a puzzle to solve.

Sure, I'll do some more rereading and write up a more detailed list with reasons tomorrow. For now, here's what I've got:

Towny:
Jamie
damo
bozo

Town-ish:
worcej
xorxes
Flum
Rdrivera
Balki

Scum-ish:
pjandy
BunnyGo
Foxcastle
bobmcbob

Scummy:
Chaqa
emc

[Fluminator]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Chaqa isn't lurking, how about you vote him?

I don’t really think he’s scum. Seems to be swimming upstream a lot.

What is the main reason you think he’s scum?

1. His scum meta is being lackadaisical about everything. When he's town he's still kind of bad but you can tell he cares more.

2. Naked voting people without ever giving opinions or pushing them, letting him be in the background while looking busy. This is another scum tell I have on him from previous games. Town chaqa actually tries to push for his reads. You can tell he doesn't actually care this game if his lynches goes through.

3. His naked votes don't make sense. The first one was bozo, and he later said bozo made no impact, and it was a dice roll which he contradicted himself multiple times about his method. He hasn't had a real scumread yet.

4. His whole progression on hammering Vecna didn't really make sense, and as kgray said, he did try to pass responsibility of his hammer to me. Other people have explained how his progression didn't make sense.

These are the ones off the top of my head.

[rdrivera2005]

@rivera, how closely are you reading the thread?

I have read every single page. Last day (the day Vecna was hammered) I was almost 20 pages behind because I had to prepare to work from home and get supplies and stuff for this damm thing. But I catched up. I didn't had time for ISOing people or doing extensive re-reads.
And you didn't address my question (at least on my POV). You were voting Vecna before he self voted, when he told he was lurking on purpose to avoid NK and will solve later. Why do you think it's more likely scum Vecna do that then town Vecna? I didn't remember a single game where Vecna was scum and lurker as a tactic.

[rdrivera2005]

I'm not feeling like a big fan today of the "let's pick from this pool of lurkers" strategy.

I am frustrated with the lurkers. And I understand I basically said at start of Day 2: "let's pick from this pool of lurkers." But I am feeling a bit concerned that a few people (rdrivera, Fox, kgray) are avoiding scrutiny without much reason.

Could be the best move to lynch a lurker today, but I am not ready to narrow the pool quite so much.

Well, do you want to ask me something?

I find the point on kgray interesting. She had a great start being logic and sharp but she didn't push things. Hard to tell if this is scummy or not because it's her first game.

And Fox is scummy as hell, in fact I would not mind voting him. Better lynch then emc. On the lurkers I would choose Bob McSulit, two lurkers for the price of one.

[BobMcBob]

Hey, don't blame me for lurking! I only accepted because everyone else refused. On another note, I should have a bit more time on my hands by Tuesday, so I should be able to start properly contributing by then. Still got to get around to looking at EoD though... If I haven't got that done in an hour, feel free to all vote me, I probably need the pressure. NK wasn't too bad for us, although bo seems to be a decent player.

[BobMcBob]

Don't worry folks, I did it! Vecna lynch was bad. I can see some reasoning behind it, but really? I definitely don't like it. Vecna is always a bad early lynch. I mean, if he hadn't started participating by D3/D4 I would have been happy to lynch him, but doing it that early was bad. Now I just need to work out if it was driven more by scum or just by anti-lurkers. Now, just to make sure I don't accidentally leave myself without a vote if I forget to come back to this, ##Vote xorx because he's the only wagon at the moment that voted Vecna. I may do some further analysis of EoD and see if someone else looks worse, but I have other things to do for the next little while.

[bozotheclown]

Don't worry folks, I did it! Vecna lynch was bad. I can see some reasoning behind it, but really? I definitely don't like it. Vecna is always a bad early lynch. I mean, if he hadn't started participating by D3/D4 I would have been happy to lynch him, but doing it that early was bad. Now I just need to work out if it was driven more by scum or just by anti-lurkers. Now, just to make sure I don't accidentally leave myself without a vote if I forget to come back to this, ##Vote xorx because he's the only wagon at the moment that voted Vecna. I may do some further analysis of EoD and see if someone else looks worse, but I have other things to do for the next little while.

That is not true, Chaqa was on the Vecna wagon also.

[bozotheclown]

Okay, I did not expect a hammer. I thought I'd be able to just pop online, look a bit further and vote in about an hour from now. And why on earth did you guys vote Vecna? In between Dipping, Spelunking and other things, I'll try to take a look at EoD. I like Vecna though. Can't see why y'all would want to kill him. Could have been scum-driven, but I'll take a look.

How much have you read? Have you read enough to think Vecna was town but not enough to understand why Vecna was lynched?

Can you answer this question from N2? How much had you read at the time?

[BobMcBob]

Don't worry folks, I did it! Vecna lynch was bad. I can see some reasoning behind it, but really? I definitely don't like it. Vecna is always a bad early lynch. I mean, if he hadn't started participating by D3/D4 I would have been happy to lynch him, but doing it that early was bad. Now I just need to work out if it was driven more by scum or just by anti-lurkers. Now, just to make sure I don't accidentally leave myself without a vote if I forget to come back to this, ##Vote xorx because he's the only wagon at the moment that voted Vecna. I may do some further analysis of EoD and see if someone else looks worse, but I have other things to do for the next little while.

That is not true, Chaqa was on the Vecna wagon also.

Ah, my bad. I'll hopefully be able to

Okay, I did not expect a hammer. I thought I'd be able to just pop online, look a bit further and vote in about an hour from now. And why on earth did you guys vote Vecna? In between Dipping, Spelunking and other things, I'll try to take a look at EoD. I like Vecna though. Can't see why y'all would want to kill him. Could have been scum-driven, but I'll take a look.

How much have you read? Have you read enough to think Vecna was town but not enough to understand why Vecna was lynched?

Can you answer this question from N2? How much had you read at the time?

check this further later.
Not much at all. I didn't read enough to think Vecna was town, but seeing that Vecna was lynched VT on the bot, I did wonder why he ended up being lynched. Because from what I've heard and the little bit I've played it's unusual for town Vecna to get lynched early. I see he was lynched to lurking, but in my (relatively noob) opinion still a bad lynch.