M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[BunnyGo]

Worcej, please don't be like Flavius.

I love watching Flav catch up. There's always the excitement when you know he's gonna hit some huge thing, and you're waiting for him to get there...it's fun!

[xorxes]

##VOTE EMC

Apparently you addressed my question already...

worcius

[worcej]

Observations:

1. For some reason in the early game EMC is absolutely obsessed with gauging exactly how salty Balki is going to be in this game. This is just really weird. It's as if he has a major crush on Balki.

2. At EoD 1 he parked his vote on Fluminator and left it there. Nobody else was voting for Fluminator and the lead wagon was Temasek. EMC said more than once that he didn't scumread Temasek, but took no action to move his vote while calmly watching Temasek getting lynched and casually making jokey remarks to Flum and Balki.

3. In his first few games here, as town, EMC seemed keen to get into the game and was quite active and generally seemed relatively intelligent. He is a natural coward, and in his early games had a desperate fear of being shouted at for being involved in a mislynch. Such was his fear that he always left it until the last second to vote, so much so that multiple people threatened to make him a policy lynch unless he grew a pair.

In the last game, I observed how he had become somewhat less active and, when he did post, 90% of his posts were irrelevant chatter that did little or nothing to contribute to the game. As a result of this I correctly scumread him and we lynched his scrawny yellow ass.

I am seeing the exact same EMC here.

He is scum.

So would you be willing to entertain lynching him today?

What a weird question. Jamie is voting emc.

I read like flavius - I respond as I catch up. I do this intentionally.

[worcej]

##VOTE EMC

Apparently you addressed my question already...

worcius

Indeed lol

[kgray]

I was beginning to sway off Vecna until he made his last 10 games claim. Bold faced lie made me decide he had to be scum thinking no one would call him on it. Nope, he’s just bad

I explained I made the change after he flat out lied about “look at the last 10 games I played” bit

I don't like how Chaqa is doubling down on this reason for his end vote when his last post before ending was:

I'm being annoyed by Vecna's attitude on this.

Flum, if you want to hammer, I guess I'll join, mainly to just get the information about this whole situation.

I get why town-Chaqa would be annoyed at Vecna's attitude, and I get why town-Chaqa would think that Vecna "lying" about his past games is scummy. But if Chaqa was so convinced about Vecna's lies being scum-indicative, and that's what made him decide to end the day, why does he say "I guess I'll join" as if he's reluctant to do so? He'd already "caught" Vecna lying at that point. And if he is reluctant, then why go through with the end vote? This post really makes it seem like he's trying to shift the responsibility towards Flum and away from himself. And finally, Chaqa literally states the main reason for his end vote is to get information. This directly contradicts his later statements.

@Chaqa, what information were you hoping to get? Did you get it? Can you explain why you changed your main reason for voting end from "getting info" to "Vecna lied"?

[worcej]

Worcej, please don't be like Flavius.

I love watching Flav catch up. There's always the excitement when you know he's gonna hit some huge thing, and you're waiting for him to get there...it's fun!

It's also good because you see my gut reactions to actions.

[worcej]

##vote pjandy

I am much more inclined to get rid of him over emc atm.

[worcej]

As for a reason: This is kinda out there, so bare with me - but I think andy is intentionally lurking. If we didn't hammer the day, he would've violated posting requirements on D2. I think he has checked in and contributed, but most likely in the mafia QT and not posting during night because he doesn't have to.

[kgray]

As for a reason: This is kinda out there, so bare with me - but I think andy is intentionally lurking. If we didn't hammer the day, he would've violated posting requirements on D2. I think he has checked in and contributed, but most likely in the mafia QT and not posting during night because he doesn't have to.

Couldn't this also apply to emc?

[Jamiet99uk]

Worcej, please don't be like Flavius.

I love watching Flav catch up. There's always the excitement when you know he's gonna hit some huge thing, and you're waiting for him to get there...it's fun!

It's also good because you see my gut reactions to actions.

It's also really annoying because you ask silly questions that have already been answered.

[BunnyGo]

Question for everyone: Which flip would give you the most intel? Whether they were scum or not? It's not clear to me that lynching a lurker will give any intel at all, but maybe that's a good way to choose which lurker to lynch?

[Jamiet99uk]

Question for everyone: Which flip would give you the most intel? Whether they were scum or not? It's not clear to me that lynching a lurker will give any intel at all, but maybe that's a good way to choose which lurker to lynch?

I am not sure an info lynch is a great idea, but of the three lurkers, emc would be the most informative lynch too, if you ask me.

[kgray]

I'm going to start with ##VOTE CHAQA

Killing Bo is an interesting way to narrow the lurkier end of the pool. Are they trying to convince to mislynch the last of the lurkers, or daring us to? Given that the remaining players down there are EMC, Pjandy, and Bob, I would bet that one of them is scum.

Or maybe it's two. Maybe it's two of them and one experienced player on the main team, and the experienced player is the killer, and he knows that if he gets caught, it's likely that the scum team will get modkilled for the loss (or just that new players will get hosed by town), and that's why he's been targeting players unlikely to be Watched. I feel like Bozo is the best bet for that scenario, actually. Or maybe Balki. (Not that I scumread them for their play otherwise.)

Do you think that scenario (an experienced player is the killer, and there are two lurkers/new players on his team) is a more likely explanation for why the killer wouldn't want to get Watched that other scum team compositions? Wouldn't any mafia team member want to avoid being caught regardless of who their teammates are?

[bozotheclown]

Knowing Vecna and bo_sox were both town, I would not expect Chaqa and xorxes to get so involved hammering Vecna as scum.

emc, Bob, and Pjandy are still not participating. emc said he would be more involved, but nothing more from him yet.

##VOTE emc

[kgray]

Knowing Vecna and bo_sox were both town, I would not expect Chaqa and xorxes to get so involved hammering Vecna as scum.

emc, Bob, and Pjandy are still not participating. emc said he would be more involved, but nothing more from him yet.

##VOTE emc

Is there any specific reason why that does not also apply to Flum?

[bozotheclown]

Are you implying that the rest of the scumteam don't know who patient zero is?

Do we know the answer to this?

I'm trying to do a re-read. Just noticed this post from Bozo.

So, one way scum identify themselves is by trying to look like they don't know a secret. Scum obviously have more knowledge than the rest of us, and so sometimes they actively try to suggest that they don't know something, when they are actively trying to hide their additional knowledge.

That might be what Bozo does above. This is at a time when nobody had confirmed with the GM how Patient Zero worked. This is basically exactly how one might expect scum to respond to an open question like that in the thread. Bozo is essentially conveying: "HEY GUYS, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THE SCUMTEAM KNOW THE IDENTITY OF PATIENT ZERO!"

So...is it different than we could expect Town!Bozo to respond. I'm not totally sure. Town!Bozo, curious about this, might ask this question in the thread. That's possible. He also might go right to the GM and ask, or he might say what he thinks the rule is.

So, this isn't definitive, but I think it's decent evidence to suggest that Bozo is scum. As this is exactly how I expect scum to interact with their secret knowledge in the thread.

I asked because I did not know the answer to the question xorxes brought up. Then I saw that BunnyGo had already called you out for being wrong, and when I questioned BunnyGo about why he was sure you were wrong, he asked the GM in public. If he hadn't, I would have asked the GM by PM.

[bozotheclown]

Knowing Vecna and bo_sox were both town, I would not expect Chaqa and xorxes to get so involved hammering Vecna as scum.

emc, Bob, and Pjandy are still not participating. emc said he would be more involved, but nothing more from him yet.

##VOTE emc

Is there any specific reason why that does not also apply to Flum?

No, but Fluminator is not a wagon. My comment was intended to communicate why I do not think xorxes or Chaqa are the best lynch candidates today.

[BunnyGo]

Knowing Vecna and bo_sox were both town, I would not expect Chaqa and xorxes to get so involved hammering Vecna as scum.

emc, Bob, and Pjandy are still not participating. emc said he would be more involved, but nothing more from him yet.

##VOTE emc

Is there any specific reason why that does not also apply to Flum?

No, but Fluminator is not a wagon. My comment was intended to communicate why I do not think xorxes or Chaqa are the best lynch candidates today.

I could get on a Flum wagon, but I think all agree that's for tomorrow...

[bozotheclown]

Question for everyone: Which flip would give you the most intel? Whether they were scum or not? It's not clear to me that lynching a lurker will give any intel at all, but maybe that's a good way to choose which lurker to lynch?

I do not think anyone flipping town would provide much information. Getting rid of the lurkers does tell us how many scum we need to look for among the active players. Lynching a lurker may even get the other lurkers to start participating.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@kgray,

I'd like you to push yourself to put some current reads in the thread. I just read your ISO. I see a lot of questioning, but not much in the way of sticking your neck out.

You were an early voter on Tem. And I thought your reasoning sounded plausible. But your play overall is coming across to me as timid and non-confrontational.

@Town, don't give kgray a free pass. I don't see much of a vector behind her questions. I feel like she's swimming in place a bit, which could suggest that she doesn't have a puzzle to solve.