M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[bo_sox48]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic, worcej.

[bo_sox48]

How on Earth do you guys lynched Vecna? And who changed the rule on hammering? It was forever majority voting both on the biggest wagon and to hammer. Even the bot count this way.

Now I will read the last 20 pages.

Vecna hammered himself and you wonder how we could lynch him?

Yes, I wonder. He was intentionally lurking and when he started to engage people decide to lynch and hammer him because of his "attitude"? I don't buy it from experienced people like Xorxes who always look for motivation. What was a possible motivation for scum Vecna play that way?

What was a possible motivation for town Vecna to play that way?

[Balki Bartokomous]

You're obviously in my scumreads; I scumread you. I'm expressing my faith in those who also scumread you to actually scumread you instead of just calling you out on your shit and then forgetting about it as we are so, so good at doing around here. I don't see how that is passive aggressive, but it is true that when I get to posting my thoughts en masse I don't really spend time on individuals even when I scumread them.

By your "powers for good" I am suggesting that not hammering Vecna was a good strategy, because it was a dumb thing to do, but simultaneously expressing uncertainty over your motivations for that change of heart.

Cool. Can you give me a sense for why you think I’m scum? You may have said it earlier, but I’m not sure it’s crystal clear in the thread. At least I don’t remember it.

[worcej]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic, worcej.

I demand more /s usage if true.

[bozotheclown]

How on Earth do you guys lynched Vecna? And who changed the rule on hammering? It was forever majority voting both on the biggest wagon and to hammer. Even the bot count this way.

Now I will read the last 20 pages.

Vecna hammered himself and you wonder how we could lynch him?

Yes, I wonder. He was intentionally lurking and when he started to engage people decide to lynch and hammer him because of his "attitude"? I don't buy it from experienced people like Xorxes who always look for motivation. What was a possible motivation for scum Vecna play that way?

I was arguing against lynching Vecna until he voted for himself. At that point it looked like it could be a scum ploy to make it seem he did not care if got lynched.

[bo_sox48]

You're obviously in my scumreads; I scumread you. I'm expressing my faith in those who also scumread you to actually scumread you instead of just calling you out on your shit and then forgetting about it as we are so, so good at doing around here. I don't see how that is passive aggressive, but it is true that when I get to posting my thoughts en masse I don't really spend time on individuals even when I scumread them.

By your "powers for good" I am suggesting that not hammering Vecna was a good strategy, because it was a dumb thing to do, but simultaneously expressing uncertainty over your motivations for that change of heart.

Cool. Can you give me a sense for why you think I’m scum? You may have said it earlier, but I’m not sure it’s crystal clear in the thread. At least I don’t remember it.

Oh, you don't remember this? Weird that you don't remember what we're talking about. Here it is again.

Okay, I just read the hammer mechanic. I don't really like that you can hammer with a majority, even when that majority is not all voting for the same person.

##unend

Though, I would be willing to hammer Vecna if we have a majority of players who want to hammer Vecna. And I think we should give him some period of time to check in and plead his case.

Here we see Balki using his powers for good, not evil. But why is he using his powers for good? And why is he willing to be evil to hammer Vecna?

Update: like 50 other people caught onto this. Hopefully Balki is in some EON scumreads.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to end right now. But maybe today. I'd like people to step up and figure out this puzzle right now.

Would you care to hold this opinion before nonchalantly planting your vote on a lurker next time?

You don't have to find it convincing, nor does anyone else. I'm just putting thoughts down, and I've only read the last ~20 pages. No need to get worried yet.

[bozotheclown]

Why it's silly? When I voted end I didn't knew the hammer mechanic have changed and I never expected it will really happen. And I also said that lynching Vecna wasn't a good option.

You, as any town with half a brain retracted on your end vote. I really doubt we don't have at least 2 scum between the late end voters (Xorxes, Fox, Flum and Chaqa). And Vecna didn't suicide, anyone pushing this is scum, there were two end votes after him that clearly know what they are doing.

Yes, they knew what they were doing, they were hammering someone who had hammered himself.

And do you believe that scum is more likely to hammer himself then town? Care to explain.

It is a bad play either way, but the only way it is not a rules violation by playing against your win condition is if you think it will manipulate players into not voting to lynch you. I do not think that kind of manipulation is typically town motivated. However, whether he should be scum read for it or not, I do not fault anyone for lynching someone who has voted for themselves.

[Balki Bartokomous]

You're obviously in my scumreads; I scumread you. I'm expressing my faith in those who also scumread you to actually scumread you instead of just calling you out on your shit and then forgetting about it as we are so, so good at doing around here. I don't see how that is passive aggressive, but it is true that when I get to posting my thoughts en masse I don't really spend time on individuals even when I scumread them.

By your "powers for good" I am suggesting that not hammering Vecna was a good strategy, because it was a dumb thing to do, but simultaneously expressing uncertainty over your motivations for that change of heart.

Cool. Can you give me a sense for why you think I’m scum? You may have said it earlier, but I’m not sure it’s crystal clear in the thread. At least I don’t remember it.

Oh, you don't remember this? Weird that you don't remember what we're talking about. Here it is again.

Okay, I just read the hammer mechanic. I don't really like that you can hammer with a majority, even when that majority is not all voting for the same person.

##unend

Though, I would be willing to hammer Vecna if we have a majority of players who want to hammer Vecna. And I think we should give him some period of time to check in and plead his case.

Here we see Balki using his powers for good, not evil. But why is he using his powers for good? And why is he willing to be evil to hammer Vecna?

Update: like 50 other people caught onto this. Hopefully Balki is in some EON scumreads.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to end right now. But maybe today. I'd like people to step up and figure out this puzzle right now.

Would you care to hold this opinion before nonchalantly planting your vote on a lurker next time?

You don't have to find it convincing, nor does anyone else. I'm just putting thoughts down, and I've only read the last ~20 pages. No need to get worried yet.

I have not forgotten your post, I’m just trying to understand your point. Can you elaborate or is this all we get?

I wouldn’t say I’m being defensive, I’d just like to see your fully expressed thinking.

[bozotheclown]

Okay, I did not expect a hammer. I thought I'd be able to just pop online, look a bit further and vote in about an hour from now. And why on earth did you guys vote Vecna? In between Dipping, Spelunking and other things, I'll try to take a look at EoD. I like Vecna though. Can't see why y'all would want to kill him. Could have been scum-driven, but I'll take a look.

How much have you read? Have you read enough to think Vecna was town but not enough to understand why Vecna was lynched?

[kgray]

May make sense to also ask why Balki, kgray, and bozo, who voted for Vecna, didn't hammer.

I wasn't convinced ending the day early was a good idea in general, but even if I had been I wouldn't have voted to end in this situation. When I voted for Vecna you were in the lead, so I thought that ending the phase early would have made it more likely you'd be lynched, not Vecna. I wasn't around later when Vecna did show up and ending early would have resulted in Vecna's lynch.

[brainbomb]

DEADLINE NIGHT 2 MOVED 1D EARLIER

[bozotheclown]

Sorry if I'm obtuse but that's not a good crumb if it is one.
The wikipedia page says its a movie about fighting disease.

The main character is a cop, it literally says he's a cop in the first paragraph of the wikipedia entry. Considering some of the other convoluted/abstruse crumbs people have tried, it seems pretty straight forward.

Also, it's so obvious that I'm not sure that Brainbomb did it as a crumb as opposed to a pop culture reference.

He referenced it in the sign up I believe so that renders it useless

This is interesting because he did reference it in the sign up thread, but he also referenced it early D1.

Fluminator, how do you explain the contradiction that Foxcastle pointed out?

[bozotheclown]

Oh no, rip brain

We've been about as effective as the good ol' murican government so far.

Why are you not answering any questions?

[bozotheclown]

Guys, it's going to take a minute for me to get through yesterday's discussion and draw conclusions because there's a lot of words and I'm not too smart. But my aim is true.

It has been over 40 hours now. Are you still playing this game?

[rdrivera2005]

Vecna hammered himself and you wonder how we could lynch him?

Yes, I wonder. He was intentionally lurking and when he started to engage people decide to lynch and hammer him because of his "attitude"? I don't buy it from experienced people like Xorxes who always look for motivation. What was a possible motivation for scum Vecna play that way?

What was a possible motivation for town Vecna to play that way?

He told on his first posts, that he will engage later to avoid an early NK. It could have been bullshit, but I never saw Vecna being lazy as scum.
And again, what is a possible motivation as scum?

[damo666]

Wild guess at scum team:

Flum EMC Chaqius & someone else (pandy?)

[Foxcastle]

Well, I still don't think one should worry about ties other than very close to the deadline. Ties should actually be welcome because they provide opportunities for information.

What. That’s never been the accepted consensus since I’ve been here, and I don’t believe I’ve ever heard you express that. (I’m not opposed to it, and maybe we can even try Day One No Lynch.)

That's not what I'm saying. Ending on a tie is bad. Having ties in the middle of the day is good.

Ah, okay, sure, I agree with that. But when we were just one or two end-votes away from ending on a tie, I think it's reasonable to be concerned about that.

[Foxcastle]

Wild guess at scum team:

Flum EMC Chaqius & someone else (pandy?)

This is not where I am personally, but I don't hate the first three suggestions.

[xorxes]

I think I already answered even if not directly, but to be more clear:

##VOTE bo_sox
##end

You were previously voting for Vecna, and then he came online. What about what he said convinced you not to vote for him?

Nothing specific he said. Just the fact he showed up and was talking was enough for me to move my vote to make the wagons more even. I still wanted more from him, but I didn't want a runaway wagon.

##end

Yes, he is scum. Caught.

##VOTE Vecna
##end

Change of heart. What made him scum, and what made him caught?

To me it was obvious from all the talk that went on before that we had no intention of hammering the day early, it was all pressure. When Vecna voted end to me it read as him thinking he was caught and had no other way out. I still have trouble understanding why he would do that as town. If he really didn't care, why show up at all, why even engage? If he did care, why make it easier for him to be lynched? It looked to me like a scum last resort trick.

[xorxes]

How on Earth do you guys lynched Vecna? And who changed the rule on hammering? It was forever majority voting both on the biggest wagon and to hammer. Even the bot count this way.

Now I will read the last 20 pages.

Vecna hammered himself and you wonder how we could lynch him?

Yes, I wonder. He was intentionally lurking and when he started to engage people decide to lynch and hammer him because of his "attitude"? I don't buy it from experienced people like Xorxes who always look for motivation. What was a possible motivation for scum Vecna play that way?

If he was scum about to be lynched, the motivation would have been to make people feel guilty for lynching him so that they don't do it. A posture of taking the high moral ground, "you idiots don't understand but there's nothiung more I can do to change your minds". That's the reason scum vote for themselves. But in the case of Vecna there was plenty he could have done to change our minds, I had already moved my vote before he did that. He should have known that he was not in immediate danger of being lynched, so his actions indicated that he was scared of being lynched rather than not really caring.