M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[brainbomb]

ok but its really weird you were able to townread sulit at like 4 posts. and in the same paragraph denigrate low posters

[Balki Bartokomous]

I think 90% of impressive newcomers end up being scum in my experience, so I don't think I'll ever be able to townread kgray, no matter how good and townie she is lol.

This is a good point actually. That jives with my experience.

I disagree in general, along with having some specific counter-examples (MeanLaQueefa, PouncySilverKitten).

Yeah, well, let me put it this way: coming fresh on the scene and making good sense is not unusual for a new scum player. So, I don't mean all smart new players are scum, I just mean to say that this is a common blind spot to avoid.

[brainbomb]

once I die I told neph ill help him co gm. assuming you all trust me to be fair and unbiased

[Jamiet99uk]

ok but its really weird you were able to townread sulit at like 4 posts. and in the same paragraph denigrate low posters

I did not want to let Bozo down by only picking four, and it was extreme guesswork at that early stage. You expect me to have five solid, carefully verified townreads less than halfway through D1? Come on.

Sulit's initial posts were quite flippant, and she batted off an early pressure vote so nonchalantly it made my gut instinct say "a noob scum wouldn't be so casual, this smells of a sassy VT".

[worcej]

@Damo - Also, I offered my reasoning for why I town read Tem. What is your take on the people (notably Balki and Bozo) that wanted more and more explanation on why I felt Tem was town involving his meta?

You don't like previous game posts, so I assume you must also not like people who drag out those discussions.

@worcej

You are showing a hostility to being questioned that has no place in any reasonable town. And you're not the only one.

I don't know your alignment, but let's say you're Town. You want me to question you. You want me to seek more explanation. You want me to tell you what I don't understand and to give you chance after chance to provide the missing pieces.

There is this default position on this website to act with sarcasm, dismissiveness, and condescension when someone asks you a question and asks you to explain yourself. It is toxic and discouraging. It is terrible town play (and frankly terrible "fake town" mafia play, except that on this site it passes as solid because the idiot townies do the same God damn thing).

We need to welcome questions, even about our own actions. That means someone is taking the time to try to understand our motivations. If you are town, take the time to explain as many times as it takes so that we can all read your alignment correctly. That's what this game is supposed to be about.

I'm sorry to lecture. I know I'm a blowhard. But we need to do better, or else we're just hanging out wise cracking at each other and hoping the dice rolls our way.

@Balki - the hostility is having to repeat the same thing several times to someone and then they try to say they mean to 'understand' me when all they are doing is interrogating me.

Rest assured, I did not mind any questioning, but to then be pestered numerous times and have any explanation I provide be essentially picked apart under the guise of 'understanding' is horse-shit, which is why I am hostile towards you - you seem to have a weird way of trying to understand someone.

For reference: I don't debate people to understand. I don't invalidate someones responses to understand them. If I don't agree, I ask further questions - I don't point out the different ways what someone said can be interpreted in order to frame them as a liar.

Again Balki, I am not hostile to questions - I am hostile towards you specifically because I call BS on your intentions to understand.

[brainbomb]

ok but its really weird you were able to townread sulit at like 4 posts. and in the same paragraph denigrate low posters

I did not want to let Bozo down by only picking four, and it was extreme guesswork at that early stage. You expect me to have five solid, carefully verified townreads less than halfway through D1? Come on.

Sulit's initial posts were quite flippant, and she batted off an early pressure vote so nonchalantly it made my gut instinct say "a noob scum wouldn't be so casual, this smells of a sassy VT".

thats a fake reply

also bozo had 10 townreads day 1

[Jamiet99uk]

Now Brainbomb, I have answered you the best I can.

Please will you do me the same courtesy and answer my question(s) about Temasek's early posting which you apparently missed?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Damo - Also, I offered my reasoning for why I town read Tem. What is your take on the people (notably Balki and Bozo) that wanted more and more explanation on why I felt Tem was town involving his meta?

You don't like previous game posts, so I assume you must also not like people who drag out those discussions.

@worcej

You are showing a hostility to being questioned that has no place in any reasonable town. And you're not the only one.

I don't know your alignment, but let's say you're Town. You want me to question you. You want me to seek more explanation. You want me to tell you what I don't understand and to give you chance after chance to provide the missing pieces.

There is this default position on this website to act with sarcasm, dismissiveness, and condescension when someone asks you a question and asks you to explain yourself. It is toxic and discouraging. It is terrible town play (and frankly terrible "fake town" mafia play, except that on this site it passes as solid because the idiot townies do the same God damn thing).

We need to welcome questions, even about our own actions. That means someone is taking the time to try to understand our motivations. If you are town, take the time to explain as many times as it takes so that we can all read your alignment correctly. That's what this game is supposed to be about.

I'm sorry to lecture. I know I'm a blowhard. But we need to do better, or else we're just hanging out wise cracking at each other and hoping the dice rolls our way.

@Balki - the hostility is having to repeat the same thing several times to someone and then they try to say they mean to 'understand' me when all they are doing is interrogating me.

Rest assured, I did not mind any questioning, but to then be pestered numerous times and have any explanation I provide be essentially picked apart under the guise of 'understanding' is horse-shit, which is why I am hostile towards you - you seem to have a weird way of trying to understand someone.

For reference: I don't debate people to understand. I don't invalidate someones responses to understand them. If I don't agree, I ask further questions - I don't point out the different ways what someone said can be interpreted in order to frame them as a liar.

Again Balki, I am not hostile to questions - I am hostile towards you specifically because I call BS on your intentions to understand.

Okay, so I think you are saying you think I am scum? I'm not sure how my intentions could be "BS" unless I am mafia. Can you explain why you think that?

[Jamiet99uk]

ok but its really weird you were able to townread sulit at like 4 posts. and in the same paragraph denigrate low posters

I did not want to let Bozo down by only picking four, and it was extreme guesswork at that early stage. You expect me to have five solid, carefully verified townreads less than halfway through D1? Come on.

Sulit's initial posts were quite flippant, and she batted off an early pressure vote so nonchalantly it made my gut instinct say "a noob scum wouldn't be so casual, this smells of a sassy VT".

thats a fake reply

also bozo had 10 townreads day 1

I forgive you for making this post.

I do not believe that Town Bozo could have 10 reasonable townreads by page 20. Do you?

[Fluminator]

I would have felt a lot better about Worjec if he thought Tem was town due to wagon analysis, but I don't think he's given that as a reason once this night yet.

[damo666]

We don't need more damo-like posts...

We need less rant type posts.

We need less abusive posts.

We need less previous game posts.

We need more goalposts.

This. I even stopped the ballads for you.

Thank you Bunny

[damo666]

Then welcome to the table Damo, glad you decided to join us.

Why don’t you take a seat?

I'm at the table old boy. What would you like to discuss?

So your intent with your vote move was entirely to see if I would move off to Tem to save myself?

No. To see if anybody jumped to you to save Tem

[damo666]

@Damo - Also, I offered my reasoning for why I town read Tem. What is your take on the people (notably Balki and Bozo) that wanted more and more explanation on why I felt Tem was town involving his meta?

You don't like previous game posts, so I assume you must also not like people who drag out those discussions.

Correct. Done to death.

[Jamiet99uk]

I would have felt a lot better about Worjec if he thought Tem was town due to wagon analysis, but I don't think he's given that as a reason once this night yet.

Why don't you know how to spell the name of your apparent #1 suspect, Formernator?

[brainbomb]

I did not want to let Bozo down by only picking four, and it was extreme guesswork at that early stage. You expect me to have five solid, carefully verified townreads less than halfway through D1? Come on.

Sulit's initial posts were quite flippant, and she batted off an early pressure vote so nonchalantly it made my gut instinct say "a noob scum wouldn't be so casual, this smells of a sassy VT".

thats a fake reply

also bozo had 10 townreads day 1

I forgive you for making this post.

I do not believe that Town Bozo could have 10 reasonable townreads by page 20. Do you?

Are you actually rereading people?
like their posts... and stuff? go read where bozo posts his first 5, and then adds 5 more and says the scum are in a pool 4/6. Its in his ISO.


As for Temasek. the things I found scummy was his sponging and parroting. ive already explained it 3 times. He entered the game with a big long post discussing a bunch of random stuff like nazis, weather baloons or god knows what. made a quip about chaqa being NAI, made a comment that balki was weird. It looked really scummy and like he was trying to talk about non game advancing filler.
I didnt waiver in my read on him because he got even worse. I hoped he would flip scum so id get to be cleared and id die n1 for once.

[brainbomb]

I really like Fluminator but stylistically, his posts have not done a single thing so far to help this game feel easier. Its bothering me that I townread him for basically working against town

[Jamiet99uk]

thats a fake reply

also bozo had 10 townreads day 1

I forgive you for making this post.

I do not believe that Town Bozo could have 10 reasonable townreads by page 20. Do you?

Are you actually rereading people?
like their posts... and stuff? go read where bozo posts his first 5, and then adds 5 more and says the scum are in a pool 4/6. Its in his ISO.


As for Temasek. the things I found scummy was his sponging and parroting. ive already explained it 3 times. He entered the game with a big long post discussing a bunch of random stuff like nazis, weather baloons or god knows what. made a quip about chaqa being NAI, made a comment that balki was weird. It looked really scummy and like he was trying to talk about non game advancing filler.
I didnt waiver in my read on him because he got even worse. I hoped he would flip scum so id get to be cleared and id die n1 for once.

Please go and read my actual question. This "reply" continues to repeat a significant innacuracy regarding Temasek' opening post(s). It is this error, which you still appear to be unaware of, that I am now asking you about.

[worcej]

Also, where’s our Rookie of the year? Kgray has gone and disappeared.

I'm around, I just don't feel like I have a lot to contribute.

I still don't understand worcej's refusal to vote Tem, but I'm not going to pressure that because others are already doing it and at this point I don't think that me repeating the same questions would be productive. And even though I don't think worcej is being particularly helpful in explaining his case, I'm not sure that makes him mafia anyway. So I'm trying not to get hung up on that.

I do think it's kind of weird that you made such a big deal out of Tem being so scummy that the GM made a mistake, and yet you never voted for him. I'll go back and see if you explained why in case I missed it, but if you didn't, can you give your reasoning?

The only reason you think I am not helpful in explaining is because you disagree with my logic.

It's pretty simple and applies to every game I play: I don't value my individual life over the team's chances of winning. All that matters is if my team wins in the end. There is no special prize for being alive at the end.

That being said, and applying it to now: I am town. I thought Tem was town. The goal of town is to find scum - If I moved to lynch Tem, I would be making a move I believe to be wrong and against my win-con. The 2ndary concern was maybe Tem was a PR. Since the scum are probably not stupid this game, I have implied numerous times that I am not a PR, meaning Tem's life in the heat of the moment was actually worth more than my own when it comes to EOD and being a wagon.

I don't see how the above explanation is confusing. If it is, I don't know how to help you understand further.

[Fluminator]

hey, you can be paranoid of me, but don't rip into my style

[Jamiet99uk]

Also, Brainbomb, I am not asking whether or not Bozo did actually claim to have 10 townreads. I am expressing doubt that anyone could actually *sincerely* have that many serious reads, that early. Slow down and read properly. You are not calm.