[Poll] Balkan Gambit

[Enriador]

A VIE-BOH, coupled with A VEN-TYR, gives both Italy and Austria 2 centers each (TUN and MUN, GRE and SER). A fancy opening that I tried twice recently to astonishing success and boardwide surprise. Worth it only for the look on the Kaiser's face!

A VIE-TYR is justified if Germany agrees to A MUN-TYR and has thrown its diplomatic weight around to keep Italy and Russia focused elsewhere.

I don't get A VIE-BUD. If you want to threaten Rumania, why not move to Galicia? If you want to keep a hand open on Serbia and Trieste, why not move to Trieste right away? A VIE Hold doesn't make sense either.

I loved the mention about how good is for Russia to *not* move to Galicia. A WAR Hold *is* a very weak move, but so is A WAR-GAL when it bounces - an army stuck in Warsaw is utterly useless!

Why not keep Galicia clean and go for more useful places which you are guaranteed to reach, like Ukraine (for Rumania), or Silesia (for Berlin/Munich) or even Livonia (for convoy into Sweden and supported attack on Denmark in 1902)?

I greatly respect A VIE-GAL, but A VIE-TRI is a favorite as far as the Balkan Gambit is concerned. The Balkan Gambit is for an optimistic Archduke seeking to avoid the worst thing that can possibly happen to Austria - an Italian army in Trieste by Spring and thus the guarantee of losing a home center no matter what you do.

[Claesar]

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I loved the mention about how good is for Russia to *not* move to Galicia. A WAR Hold *is* a very weak move, but so is A WAR-GAL when it bounces - an army stuck in Warsaw is utterly useless!
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The bounce indirectly helps taking Rumania, of course, so it's not utterly worthless. In fact, I'd say that's the main reason to bounce in Gal for Russia. It makes sure Austria can't put an extra army on Rumania.

[Enriador]

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I loved the mention about how good is for Russia to *not* move to Galicia. A WAR Hold *is* a very weak move, but so is A WAR-GAL when it bounces - an army stuck in Warsaw is utterly useless!
...

The bounce indirectly helps taking Rumania, of course, so it's not utterly worthless. In fact, I'd say that's the main reason to bounce in Gal for Russia. It makes sure Austria can't put an extra army on Rumania.

Keeping Galicia clean is useful, but once the army has bounced it's stuck for a good while. As Russia, I only move there when sure of Austria going there as well. Otherwise, DMZ!

[dancing queen]

coincidentally, i rewatched that video recently. another thing that strikes me (and you explicitly point this out) is the way in which peter (as austria) tells andrew (as russia), that vienna always goes to trieste. he says it in such a way that you immediately know that it's true. he negotiates a DMZ in galicia and warsaw holds, and vienna ends up bouncing venice out of trieste. it is unfortunate that peter's negotiations with chris (as italy) are unavailable for that phase.

the fact that warsaw holds is particularly impressive since i consider that a pretty weak move. ya'll may disagree though.

Probably belongs in another thread, but Goffy's play here - the slow, "I'm not a threat to anyone" play - works very very well, for him in so many ways. He's a good enough negotiator that he can persuade people that his help is worth more than his dots, and he's a good enough tactician to win most "fair" fights. In this game, his mistake was ruining Doug's game in Germany (which we discuss), because Doug Moore is absolutely someone With Whom You Do Not Want To Fuck.

Once Doug started devoting his not inconsiderable energy towards ruining Goffy's game, Russia couldn't get any traction. This, more than anything else, I argue, is what led to Chris Brand winning WDC that year.

And of course Doug went on to win the following year in Oxford, so he got his revenge. :D

[eturnage]

Chris I watched your series. Great point on Doug. Goffy also missed a lot of tells from Peter in that WDC game as Russia . . . as you illustrated in your commentary. Even great players like Goff are susceptible to believing what they want to believe . . . even in the face of perceptible indication (moves and body language) that things were not as Peter was telling him. Goff would probably agree that wasn't one of his better games.

I answered A Vie-Gal in the poll because in most games Italy understands that taking Trieste is a short term strategy and generally leads to greater Turkish profits. Philosophically, I, and I believe most competent Austria's will suicide on Italy for wrecking the Austrian game in S01. I'm going to make sure Italy pays for that one dot stab even if I ultimately die under Turkish knives. I will go to my maker knowing that Italy will soon likely meet the same fate.

However, there is a ton of merit to working something out with Russia for a DMZ in Gal. If you can get Russia going north or against Germany, that's a great situation for Austria generally speaking.

[ziran]

@enriador, care to link those games in which Austria and Italy conspire to take Munich?

[Enriador]

@enriador, care to link those games in which Austria and Italy conspire to take Munich?

These games were on Conspiracy, both times in private games with a few friends I met on vDip/Droidippy. Look for "Enriador" on the "Observed games" section and you'll find it.

Philosophically, I, and I believe most competent Austria's will suicide on Italy for wrecking the Austrian game in S01. I'm going to make sure Italy pays for that one dot stab even if I ultimately die under Turkish knives. I will go to my maker knowing that Italy will soon likely meet the same fate.

I share the same philosophy - if my fellow Weak Sister dares to screw up my game, I will surely retribute as much as I can. Also applies to Turkey going F ANK-BLA, A SMY-ARM.

On A WAR-GAL: I believe it's a superb move, but not a no-brainer. Certainly useful in most contexts, but we should not understimate the power of freeing A WAR (and thus A MOS) to do other stuff.

[ckroberts]

I don't have much to add except that this an excellent thread. I like the new forum now.

[Enriador]

I don't have much to add except that this an excellent thread. I like the new forum now.

I was skeptic at first, but the new format allows more in-depth discussion which is awesome.

Does anyone do A VIE-BUD? If so why?

[Claesar]

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Does anyone do A VIE-BUD? If so why?

I've seen it happen. If you DMZ Gal and believe Italy won't go to Tri, Bud seems the most logical next choice. It allows you to influence Rumania.

[dancing queen]

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Does anyone do A VIE-BUD? If so why?

I've seen it happen. If you DMZ Gal and believe Italy won't go to Tri, Bud seems the most logical next choice. It allows you to influence Rumania.

Yep - F01 Army Bud / A Ser / F Alb is a very strong position for exerting influence - always supposing you aren't dealing with Italians &/or Russians attacking at the same time. Non-Zero Chance for a 3 build, if you can get R or T to support/allow Bud -> Rum - not impossible if there is a Turk in Armenia.

[eturnage]

A Vie - Bud
A move that is reasonable if you have an alliance with Turkey and a DMZ in Gal. Turkey bounces F Sev - Bla with F Ank - Bla and orders A Smy-Arm. Austria moves A Bud-Rum. A Vie-Bud allows Austria to order A Bud-Ser in the fall.

Turkey orders F Ank-Bla; A Arm - Sev; A Bul S Rum. Austria orders A Rum S TURKISH A Arm-Sev, or vice versa. Maybe two builds for both. No Rum and Sev at risk for Russia.