MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[peterlund]

I was townreading you because you had implied you were PR, but now we have 11 PR claims, so unless you want to be the 12th claimant, you were probably lying.

If that would be the case, that I would claim, why would the probability be higher that the last claimant would be lying compared to any of the first 11 claimants?

Flawed logic from the lying Reaver, I think this is.

[xorxes]

I was townreading you because you had implied you were PR, but now we have 11 PR claims, so unless you want to be the 12th claimant, you were probably lying.

If that would be the case, that I would claim, why would the probability be higher that the last claimant would be lying compared to any of the first 11 claimants?

Who said the probability would be higher? Do you think it would be higer, or just as believable?

[xorxes]

peterlund still suggesting, but not quite getting there, that he will claim PR.

[worcej]

Five players have reacted in an anti-town way by voting for an uncced PR instead of someone likely to be scum.

Or we think that the person claiming a town PR and choosing to not use the GM reveal is a little suspicious. I see no good reason to not verify his claim if I am supposed to act as if it is 100% true.

You're not supposed to act as if it's 100% true. You are supposed to weigh the chances it is true vs the chances it is false. You are supposed to treat it a you would treat any unverified but uncced PR claim. It is in fact the only claim that could be counterclaimed at this point, and yet has not been counterclaimed.

All of what you said is how I am behaving.

You can be verified by GM and thus I can eliminate my need to weigh in on it. You choosing to claim, but not verify the claim, is more sketchy than anything imo

[peterlund]

Who said the probability would be higher? Do you think it would be higer, or just as believable?

You selected me as your vote. That you "said" / did. So why did you vote for me?

[Chaqa]

I'm just as happy to lynch the person who chose to claim the only GM-verifiable role, and who is refusing to have the GM verify him. It's very anti-town.

exactly

There is a clear reason xorx is not claming. And it is not anti-town.

I ducking hate this “oh ho ho how can yo not see the masterful play here” attitude. It’s NOT clear. It seems quite silly to me.

[Chaqa]

If he’d claimed any other role then this would be an “unCCd claim” but his claim is designed to be mechanically confirmable. tiānxiǎode why he hasn’t cleared this up yet. The longer it drags, the more I think this is all a trap.

It is still uncced because if he was not the Captain, there would be a real Captain out there who could claim. On the off chance that xorxes is not the Captain, he is already caught, so why is it necessary to force the reveal today? Also, why should it affect anyone's willingness to claim?

BECAUSE CLAIMING IS ANTI-TOWN IN THIS SETUP YOU liú kǒushuǐ de biǎozǐ hé hóuzǐ de bèn érzǐ。We as a group never agreed it wasn’t. Hell by the time the claiming started we were barely past joke phase and a half dozen players hasn’t posted more than “hello”.

You can take your gǒushǐ policy vote, Tom, and put it back where it came from.

Claiming is extremely pro-town.

Bunny scum.

[xorxes]

Who said the probability would be higher? Do you think it would be higer, or just as believable?

You selected me as your vote. That you "said" / did. So why did you vote for me?

Because you have not claimed PR, only implied it, and now you're being cagey about it.

I believed you might actually be PR when there were enough slots available. Now it's overcrowded, and you have not even claimed PR.

[Chaqa]

"BECAUSE CLAIMING IS ANTI-TOWN IN THIS SETUP YOU "

incorrect. It forces scum to commit to lies and creates town clears. Nothing about it anti-town and Im glad xorx is forcing everyone to do it.

+10

[Chaqa]

There is a clear reason xorx is not confirming. And it is not anti-town.

And just what is that?

Educate us, O Mighty and Learned Tombo.

+1

[Chaqa]

BECAUSE CLAIMING IS ANTI-TOWN IN THIS SETUP YOU liú kǒushuǐ de biǎozǐ hé hóuzǐ de bèn érzǐ。We as a group never agreed it wasn’t. Hell by the time the claiming started we were barely past joke phase and a half dozen players hasn’t posted more than “hello”.

You can take your gǒushǐ policy vote, Tom, and put it back where it came from.

If you think claiming is anti-town, why are you saying that you will claim if I reveal? Why would my reveal cause you to act in an anti-town manner?

Because we are past the point of no return. Not claiming at all was not anti-town. Not participating is also anti-town. But the reaver is really a deterrent to claiming. A strong one that I don’t think people appreciated enough.

Reaver is not at all anti-claim

[Chaqa]

Also, I did mention yesterday that I would give xorxes some more time to do his reaction hunting. But we're approaching End of Day now, and I think everyone would benefit immensely from having his role confirmed.

Also, there's this

Likewise, what is the danger in you revealing your claim now? You can prove it and alleviate any possible concerns, yet choose not to?

No danger. I just think forcing people to read me instead of bludgeoning them with a GM reveal is much more informative.

You admit there's no danger to getting GM verification. You have your reads on people. Its time to claim. How would you feel about a different town PR who voluntarily chose not to use their powers? A claimed Doc who didn't save anyone? A claimed cop who didn't scan anyone? You're in the same boat. I want your extra votes today, where it counts.

+1

[Chaqa]

There is a clear reason xorx is not claming. And it is not anti-town.

Oh? He doesn’t want extra votes today? He doesn’t want several of us to claim?

I don't want the extra votes.
I don't want to be a mechanical clear yet.
I want the freedom to use the reveal to prove I have not been recruited (this was not one of my original reasons, but the way the roleblock works it might actually be useful to have this way of proving I was not recruited available).

Dude...

[Chaqa]

Xorxes you are the least valuable reaver target. Reveal.

Agree. And if you reveal and are THEN reaver, you lose your votes and we would know. If you never reveal and are reaver’d, you can just keep saying “I don’t want to claim yet” and use it as an excuse

[Chaqa]

How would you feel about a different town PR who voluntarily chose not to use their powers? A claimed Doc who didn't save anyone? A claimed cop who didn't scan anyone? You're in the same boat. I want your extra votes today, where it counts.

I only have one reveal, I can't reveal as many times as I want to.

The reveal is irreversible, I can't not have the extra votes once I reveal.

So no, it's not analogous.

And in any case, no, I would not want to lynch a PR that is using their powers the wrong way.

And whether I reveal or not should have no bearing on whether you think massclaim is beneficial to town or not. Making your claim contingent on my reveal is ridiculous. In fact, if you are going to claim if I reveal, you should be even more eager to claim if I don't reveal, as it would expose me if I'm lying.

If you’re Reaver’d you would lose the votes, no?

##CallGM: a player converted to a Reaver loses all pre-existing abilities, correct?

[xorxes]

exactly

There is a clear reason xorx is not claming. And it is not anti-town.

I ducking hate this “oh ho ho how can yo not see the masterful play here” attitude. It’s NOT clear. It seems quite silly to me.

There's no masterful play. It's just my preference of how I play my role. It should have zero impact on whether people claim or not, so people who used it as an excuse not to claim are very suspect. It should also not be a reason to lynch me. Yes, I understand you crave for closure, but it is quite obvious I'm not lying, and if I were it doesn't matter much because I would be caught (as if there was any chance I would not be caught with the most ridiculous fakeclaim you could think of).

So there's 8 people voting for me. Most of them just silly town, unfortunately.

[Jamiet99uk]

See how Tom Bombadil said "Oh yes Xorxes is doing something really clever" by not confirming, but when pressed to explain what it was that was so brilliant, Tom wouldn't answer.

[xorxes]

How would you feel about a different town PR who voluntarily chose not to use their powers? A claimed Doc who didn't save anyone? A claimed cop who didn't scan anyone? You're in the same boat. I want your extra votes today, where it counts.

I only have one reveal, I can't reveal as many times as I want to.

The reveal is irreversible, I can't not have the extra votes once I reveal.

So no, it's not analogous.

And in any case, no, I would not want to lynch a PR that is using their powers the wrong way.

And whether I reveal or not should have no bearing on whether you think massclaim is beneficial to town or not. Making your claim contingent on my reveal is ridiculous. In fact, if you are going to claim if I reveal, you should be even more eager to claim if I don't reveal, as it would expose me if I'm lying.

If you’re Reaver’d you would lose the votes, no?

##CallGM: a player converted to a Reaver loses all pre-existing abilities, correct?

Yes, but I would also lose the votes if I was roleblocked, apparently.

[Chaqa]

I don't want the extra votes.
I don't want to be a mechanical clear yet.
I want the freedom to use the reveal to prove I have not been recruited (this was not one of my original reasons, but the way the roleblock works it might actually be useful to have this way of proving I was not recruited available).

Now you need to get the GM confirmation done, so town has some hours to find someone else to lynch instead. Not having it done now (if it can be done) would be extremely disrupting to town and that in it self VERY ANTI-TOWN behaviour (even more that it has already been). My guess now is that Xorx is the Reaver Prime. I we will know soon...

I still think he is the Captain, as I don’t see any reason for a non-Captain to pretend to be captain, unless he is the Mudtown planning to get himself lynched following the mass revealz

[Chaqa]

For those not familiar: the NONREVEARS (the hero’s) would swear in Chinese. I googled a firefly Chinese summary and copy paste references as I want them.

This is suspicious to post stuff like that when there’s a special posting requirement role in place.