MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

I do think it's a valid strategy from a game theory perspective, but it is quite anti-spirit of the game in some ways. That said, there's no clear mechanical drawback to a massclaim in this setup.

Bounty-hunter, hello?
also im back guys, lots of new years stuff

Bounty Hunter targets PLAYERS, not ROLES. Massclaim doesn’t affect this at all.

[bozotheclown]

Unclaimed list:
BunnyGo
Flavius
goldfinger
Kalel
ND
peterlund
Superstition
Vecna

Posted with the hour before Reaver warning:
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Cha​qa
goldfinger
ND

Top Reaver suspects:
BunnyGo
goldfinger
Kalel
ND

[Chaqa]

Flav is suspiciously incoherent in his bounty hunter ramblings, making no sense at all. Is he usually this bad? Is this scum indicative?

Flavius always finds really random and inconsequential things to harp on and then acts like they’re the end of the world. You’re best to just ignore him, tbh.

[Chaqa]

Captain isn't a good recruit after being revealed as it will be obvious he was recruited when he lose the double vote. If Xorxes is real captain he is probably counting on this and on protectives.

So are you saying that Xorxes do not want a GM confirmation of his role, so that he may be recruited as Reaver? Doesn't seem really right to me...

This would be against his win condition, so he’s not doing that.

[bozotheclown]

Because it's literally the reason more than one person has given from not participating in the massclaim. Xorxes' behaviour is dominating the day, distracting from scumhunting, and he just needs to get it over and done with. Why are you defending his nonsense?

I think it is only distracting those who are letting it distract them. If xorxes is not the real Captain, he is already caught, so I do not believe there is any reason to force the issue by voting for him. His refusal to confirm he is Captain turned out to be a good reaction test as far as reaction tests go, it certainly resulted in a lot stronger reactions that I would have expected.

What have we learned from the reactions? Who is scum, Bozo?

Reactions do not have to be immediately obvious as scum or town indicative to be useful. I am OK voting for any xorxes voter who has not claimed PR.

[ND]

As for gunshots.... I wouldn't shoot ND at this point.

If Xorxes refuses to confirm himself he may earn himself a bullet. Heh, heh.

If someone shoots xorxes they are the worst player of all time

Anyone following a scam artist who refuses to verify his verificable role is the worst player of all time jackass

[ND]

Xorxes I think you're town. I also think you're not playing pro town, in that you're refusing to get verified. Creating this mistrust differential is not pro town. What more do you expect to get from reactions?

Five players have reacted in an anti-town way by voting for an uncced PR instead of someone likely to be scum.

no, it's not anti-town to vote for someone claiming to be an easily verifiable role. It's anti-town to give credence to a con man and go along with a plan to flush out PR's in a mass claim situation when the guy leading it refuses to verify his role. It's beyond stupid.

[Jamiet99uk]

Posted with the hour before Reaver warning:
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Cha​qa
goldfinger
ND

"Reaver warning" ??

What is that?

[ND]

The GM posted some kind of reaver warning yesterday

[Tom Bombadil]

##vote goldfinger

[bozotheclown]

Posted with the hour before Reaver warning:
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Cha​qa
goldfinger
ND

"Reaver warning" ??

What is that?

Apparently the Reaver violated his posting restriction and was warned in a post.

[bozotheclown]

Xorxes I think you're town. I also think you're not playing pro town, in that you're refusing to get verified. Creating this mistrust differential is not pro town. What more do you expect to get from reactions?

Five players have reacted in an anti-town way by voting for an uncced PR instead of someone likely to be scum.

no, it's not anti-town to vote for someone claiming to be an easily verifiable role. It's anti-town to give credence to a con man and go along with a plan to flush out PR's in a mass claim situation when the guy leading it refuses to verify his role. It's beyond stupid.

Do you really think xorxes being scum trying to reveal PRs is the most likely possibility? Why do you think that a mass "PR or not PR" claim is anti-town?

[BunnyGo]

I am, but if we have people not participating then why disclose more information to weaken our position further.

I also think there is some sense in not following you until you do the reveal. There have been times when people have faked a PR and did not get a counter claim in the past from the actual PR.

If the actual captain is out there, do you think it is in his best interests to claim?

Beginning a lot of catchup now. Also, HNY.

If xorxes is lying, no they shouldn't. They have strong vote powers that are needed to prevent mylo/lylo if they last that long. This is one reason why I think xorxes claiming early is a little off, but NAI overall because he knows he usually dies early.

What is HNY?

[ND]

You have to remember, when all this started it was essentially an hour into D1 or a couple hours in when Xorxes started talking about a mass claim. That is all he has talked about. Yes, I think it is pretty retarded to have a mass claim an hour into the day. It might not be "anti-town" but it's null.

What is anti-town @BOZO is going through with this halfbaked idea BEFORE a consensus is reached.

What is anti-town @BOZO is claiming literally the most verifiable role ever (as it is a type of mayor role) where the GM HAS TO LITERALLY VERIFY IT. The power is for the GM to VERIFY THE ROLE. And the guy fucking refuses to verify.

The way I see it, he talked about this idea all day. Found out that at least a minority of people were open to it (some real geniuses like Chaqa), decided to go ahead and do it without a consensus (anti-town) and has now succeeded in generating a partial list of PRs. In the process he has claimed a role which is verifiable by the GM but has refused to verify (anti-town). And now has advocated the VIG shoot people (me and also goldfinger as of yesterday) that do not like his plan and has called him out on his anti-town actions which is in in itself ANTI-TOWN.

By my count Xorxes has wracked up three big anti-town plays.

[ND]

Look, I KNOW, some of you do not want to even fathom the possibility that I am right on this. Because if you do, and you have claimed, then you are admitting you have made a huge and completely retarded mistake. But, it's time to pay the piper. You need to acknowledge the guy leading this is acting in an anti-town way.

[Jamiet99uk]

What is HNY?

Happy
New
Year

[Tom Bombadil]

Look, I KNOW, some of you do not want to even fathom the possibility that I am right on this. Because if you do, and you have claimed, then you are admitting you have made a huge and completely retarded mistake. But, it's time to pay the piper. You need to acknowledge the guy leading this is acting in an anti-town way.

No. Mass claim is helpful for town. There is a reason people put in fake roles in games for scum to prevent mass claims.

[Tom Bombadil]

In fact, we should be doing a full mass claim, but clearly that's going to meet some resistance

[Jamiet99uk]

Xorxes you have demanded to be the centre of attention for today.

You love telling people what to do.

Well done, you are now in control of my vote. It will stay on you until you verify your role. You can move my vote off you at any time between now and EoD, by verifying.

[goldfinger0303]

##vote goldfinger

Well that seems unwarranted. Would like to hear your reasoning for that one, Tom.

I do believe, much to my dismay, that we have passed the point of no return with the massclaim. It would be beneficial for everyone else to claim now. I am a town PR.