MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[FlaviusAetius]

BTW I really don't like Chaqa's take on Xorxes' call for a massclaim.

He's like "Hey I think massclaiming is a good idea BUT ehh it's against the spirit of the game BUT I agree with Xorxes' analysis BUT I bet it'll never work".

So super, super hedgy.

Initially yea, but then he started to defend it forreals

[FlaviusAetius]

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Dear Reaver; do recruit me. I really want to find out what potentially ridiculous press restrictions there are, and how to bullshit 'em

Town xorxes - I think RP xorxes would post this, but under the notion that the RP has posting restrictions of some sort he sounds too normal.

NAI emc - this is on par with his shenanigans

We have literally no clue what the restrictions are, for all we know it could be just based on what they are allowed to talk about, and what they arent allowed to talk about

[FlaviusAetius]

Seems a little early to be worried about those details... unless you've got personal stake in either of those teams. -1

Pushed back on RDR. +1

Very good post from Kalel. He's town.

Did he not... just... mention his spreadsheet?

TRUEEEEE, chaqa what is going on

[FlaviusAetius]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

Taking the not liking the process out, my only concern is that I interpreted the BH role to be able to outright win and other factions lose if they get their targets lynched or killed before the other factions get them.

I could be wrong - will throw a GM call up if no one else did once I am caught up.

did you not read your role PM? it says or neutral wins..

[FlaviusAetius]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

Taking the not liking the process out, my only concern is that I interpreted the BH role to be able to outright win and other factions lose if they get their targets lynched or killed before the other factions get them.

I could be wrong - will throw a GM call up if no one else did once I am caught up.

Yes, they do win in that case, but how does the massclaim benefit them in any way?

So you just dont understand the bounty hunter whatsoever, they HAVE TARGETS, massclaiming reveals said TARGETS
I know you say 'oh but then we find him' oh really? in the midst of all the counter claiming? not a chance lol

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm going to Flavius this game. Pre-read thoughts:

If EMC doesn't vote within the first 24 hours, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Kalel mentions his spreadsheet, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Vecna and/or xorxes survive past day 4, lynch their asses.

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Xorxes is Reaver Prime or on Mafia team 1. EZ game.

##Vote xorxes

What do you think is xorxes posting restrictions that he has to be following right now?

YES YES YES I FOUND IT OUT
XORXES HAS TO TALK WITH GRAMMAR, HE NEVER TALKS WITH PERFECT GRAMMAR, LOOK WHAT HE'S DOING RIGHT NOW OH MY GOD

[FlaviusAetius]

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

You’re not asking me, but I think it is more town points than anything to ask for the opinions. Pushing for it is more 3P than scummy.

How does 3P benefit from a massclaim? They have a smaller pool where to hide, and knowing everyone's role doesn't benefit them all that much.

are you freaking kidding me?
During the day you must vote for a suspect.

, and are the players with bounties on them in this sector. If all targets are killed by lynch or night kill and you are not dead, you win the game. Each End of Night, news reaches the Town publicly that a payment has been made into the Bounty Hunter’s accounts for the death of any of your targets eliminated.

You win when your targets are eliminated, you are alive and no other faction has already won.

THEY HAVE A LIST!!!

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm going to program the first Mafia Bot for this site someday. Maybe PeterL can help me. I wont confirm or deny that I have a new sheet because I was threatened if I brought it up... so I won't bring up (or share) my spreadsheet 4.0 (if it existed, which I'm not confirming).

I'll look at a spreadsheet. I like seeing how algs parse things.

I won't townread you for having one, but neither will I scumread you.

Why is there hate for spreadsheets?

because kalel hid behind them instead of actually doing literally anything else

[FlaviusAetius]

... for all we know they're new or out-of-date, and clueless towards good recruits ;p

Who, as far as you know, fits into those categories?

teac(you), peter, gold, pirstition

to a somewhat lesser extent flav, tem

I would be the best reaper prime there ever was, I wouldnt be lynched(cause Im amazing) and I do know people here, and know who would be good to recruit, obviously I wont say UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE, for the real RP

[FlaviusAetius]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

Fair enough, but didn't Kit said the setup is quite anti-massclaim?

She did, but I don't really see how so. In fact, with all the protecting roles and the Mayor (+2 vote role) I find it actually pretty pro-massclaim.

so does the bounty hunter just not exist for you?

[FlaviusAetius]

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I agree with this analysis but struggle with the 2nd mafia team’s recruitment. If we claim, it needs to probably be on D2 after this first recruitment to ensure the town clears are always clears.

The Reavers are indeed a bit of a detriment to the entire mass-claim idea, but wouldn't it be better to make the claims before Reaver-ing, so that we:
1. have a chance for a vigilante to kill Reaver-Prime
2. have a chance for a doc save or commute save of some sort
3. have a chance for teams 1 & 2 to hit the same target

I'd say all are unlikely, but recent games have shown how it's really a crapshoot and lots of random stuff can happen.

Yes, if we are massclaiming, itd be best to do it today, but again...BOUNTYHUNTER

[FlaviusAetius]

You beat me on this.

Yet you didn't vote?

Why people expect I vote emc? Jamiet already voted as a pressure on him to vote early (and avoid being modkilled at least). It was page 1 and I don't have any idea about emc alignment yet, why turn him a real wagon?

##vote Worcej for now.

uhh, why not add MORE pressure? this is confusing

[FlaviusAetius]

all Im saying about the massclaim, that it actually distrupts us finding the bounty hunter, imo I think we'd do actually a better job just naturally looking for scum, than by massclaiming. We also dont know who to protect against the bounty hunter and they likely wont even allign with who the scum are going after, so what are you going to do then?
hey for all we know the bounty hunter needs to go after mafia, why out him out so early?(which we wouldnt) its going to be a JUNGLE of massclaiming
@xorxes there is a reason Im against massclaiming on principal, and thats because its just plain bad to do

[ND]

Hey ND, let's you and I put this xorxes thing aside for a second since we're both on. What would you be focusing on if this shit weren't going on?

Chaqud

[ND]

Tpyo chaqa

[ND]

Nite

[Vecna]

turns out I do not have time to devote to this game after all. We planned a last minute trip for the coming weeks so ill replace out.

[rdrivera2005]

all Im saying about the massclaim, that it actually distrupts us finding the bounty hunter, imo I think we'd do actually a better job just naturally looking for scum, than by massclaiming. We also dont know who to protect against the bounty hunter and they likely wont even allign with who the scum are going after, so what are you going to do then?
hey for all we know the bounty hunter needs to go after mafia, why out him out so early?(which we wouldnt) its going to be a JUNGLE of massclaiming
@xorxes there is a reason Im against massclaiming on principal, and thats because its just plain bad to do

Flavius, the bounty hunter have no killing power (this isn't the Mandalorian game) so we don't need to protect against him. He knows his targets (players, not roles). He just have to be lucky having his targets killed by town or Mafia. We need to find him early to not risk him winning, and the massclaim increases the odds on finding him as he will be in the VT pool.

[peterlund]

Flav is suspiciously incoherent in his bounty hunter ramblings, making no sense at all. Is he usually this bad? Is this scum indicative?

[peterlund]

Let me put it this way, how surprised would you be if the actual captain is letting xorxes hang himself, and is planning on having a reveal closer to EOD? I wouldn't say I'm expecting it, but it's definitely 10% in my mind (about the odds of coming back down 2 runs in the 9th inning).

I would not be surprised if the real captain let Xorxes hang, continue to stay hidden and keep his reveal until the reveal is needed for real, which can be in a day or two. Why would the captain out and become a natural NK/recruit target?