MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[BunnyGo]

It was the roaches that first drew her attention to it. Great brown bugs where there shouldn’t be anything for them to eat. Gorram Jayne and his gorram snacks. If she didn’t clean out whatever they were eating, the insects could get into the wiring and short out something critical.

“I am not his ruttin maid!” Kaylee swore as she followed them into an isolated service compartment - and stopped, her eyes wide. Half a dozen knifes. A gobbet of flesh, and a length of skin that some poor sod had to be missing. A pool of blood, still fresh. It all added up to one thing, and she bolted from the compartment headed for the Bridge.

“Mal? Mal?! I think we’ve got Reavers aboard!”

##CallGM: what does dis mean?

First level Reaver press violation.

##CALL GM Is there any actual penalties? Or just this warning?

[Kitsune]

##CallGM: what does dis mean?

First level Reaver press violation.

##CALL GM Is there any actual penalties? Or just this warning?

This warning is a note to town that there has been a violation (or, a break in the required pattern).

Other penalties for second level violation or similar are part of the closed elements of this semi-open setup.

[bozotheclown]

PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM UNTIL HE VERIFIES. VOTE XORXES UNTIL HE VERIFIES HIS ROLE.

ND is making lots of sense! ##vote xorxes until the GM confirms his Captain claim. And in case Xorxes retracts his claim, I will surely stay on him until EoD, since this whole mass-claim gambit in that case only can be scum/reaver motivated.

Happy New year btw!! We over here are 2 and a half hour already into 2020...

Why would xorxes fake claim Captain, the one role that could be proven false during D1? In the absence of anyone else claiming Captain, xorxes should waiting until the Reavers are done recruiting to activate his reveal, so that he can prove he was not recruited.

[bozotheclown]

It was the roaches that first drew her attention to it. Great brown bugs where there shouldn’t be anything for them to eat. Gorram Jayne and his gorram snacks. If she didn’t clean out whatever they were eating, the insects could get into the wiring and short out something critical.

“I am not his ruttin maid!” Kaylee swore as she followed them into an isolated service compartment - and stopped, her eyes wide. Half a dozen knifes. A gobbet of flesh, and a length of skin that some poor sod had to be missing. A pool of blood, still fresh. It all added up to one thing, and she bolted from the compartment headed for the Bridge.

“Mal? Mal?! I think we’ve got Reavers aboard!”

Posted since previous GM post:
goldfinger
rdrivera
dargorygel
xorxes
Tom
Chaqa
ND
teacon
worcej
Temasek
emc
BunnyGo
bozo
Kalel
peter

[bozotheclown]

It was the roaches that first drew her attention to it. Great brown bugs where there shouldn’t be anything for them to eat. Gorram Jayne and his gorram snacks. If she didn’t clean out whatever they were eating, the insects could get into the wiring and short out something critical.

“I am not his ruttin maid!” Kaylee swore as she followed them into an isolated service compartment - and stopped, her eyes wide. Half a dozen knifes. A gobbet of flesh, and a length of skin that some poor sod had to be missing. A pool of blood, still fresh. It all added up to one thing, and she bolted from the compartment headed for the Bridge.

“Mal? Mal?! I think we’ve got Reavers aboard!”

Posted with the hour before warning (and more than one minute before the warning):
Temasek
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Chaqa
goldfinger
ND

[bozotheclown]

It was the roaches that first drew her attention to it. Great brown bugs where there shouldn’t be anything for them to eat. Gorram Jayne and his gorram snacks. If she didn’t clean out whatever they were eating, the insects could get into the wiring and short out something critical.

“I am not his ruttin maid!” Kaylee swore as she followed them into an isolated service compartment - and stopped, her eyes wide. Half a dozen knifes. A gobbet of flesh, and a length of skin that some poor sod had to be missing. A pool of blood, still fresh. It all added up to one thing, and she bolted from the compartment headed for the Bridge.

“Mal? Mal?! I think we’ve got Reavers aboard!”

Posted with the hour before warning (and more than one minute before the warning):
Temasek
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Chaqa
goldfinger
ND

[bozotheclown]

Players voting for uncced PR claimant:

ND
BunnyGo
peter

[bozotheclown]

I still have no clue why this is worth anything. The scum can easily hide in the two groups. Why are we not waiting for consensus. This all smells bad to me. And I’m drinking now, so Drunk Bunny (TM) doesn’t get it either.

It is simple, if 9 players claim PR, we have 9 town clears. If more than 9 players claim PR, we have the PRs claim their role to get town vs. scum counterclaims.

[dargorygel]

The warning to the reaver is worth digging into
Although I think kit would not intentionall make it easily deduced.

Meanwhile, I need to place a vote Peter usually is mechanics oriented, iirc. But he seems forced. He also seems strangely angry about the cap-claim.

##vote peterlund

[BunnyGo]

OK, I know it's not really important, but I'm gonna post about it: Different uses of ! (pronounced 'bang').

Logic:

The ! symbol is used to mean "not" as in "1 != 2" This is commonly used in some programming languages.

Adjective/Quality assignment:

The ! symbol is used to assign a new characteristic to an item. This is commonly used in some computational programming languages (most commonly used in excel but also magma and maybe others). For example in excel, you use "Sheet1!A2" to mean, "look at cell A2 in sheet1". or in Magma, you could use "Rational!2" to mean "don't treat 2 like an integer, treat it like a fraction".

Some fanfiction and other traits have taken this in examples like "Emo!Bunny" as in a story where I'm not my normal self, I take on emo characteristics or "Super!Bunny" where I have even more super powers than I normally do.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled game. The professor is done.

[BunnyGo]

I still have no clue why this is worth anything. The scum can easily hide in the two groups. Why are we not waiting for consensus. This all smells bad to me. And I’m drinking now, so Drunk Bunny (TM) doesn’t get it either.

It is simple, if 9 players claim PR, we have 9 town clears. If more than 9 players claim PR, we have the PRs claim their role to get town vs. scum counterclaims.

This statement is so clearly false without buy-in from everyone. That's the point. The arrogance of everyone to assume that the non-posters and people on the fence or in disagreement could be PRs and be giving cover for scum. Anyone want to bet on the odds that a non-poster is a PR? The probabilist here says "high".

[BunnyGo]

PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM UNTIL HE VERIFIES. VOTE XORXES UNTIL HE VERIFIES HIS ROLE.

ND is making lots of sense! ##vote xorxes until the GM confirms his Captain claim. And in case Xorxes retracts his claim, I will surely stay on him until EoD, since this whole mass-claim gambit in that case only can be scum/reaver motivated.

Happy New year btw!! We over here are 2 and a half hour already into 2020...

Why would xorxes fake claim Captain, the one role that could be proven false during D1? In the absence of anyone else claiming Captain, xorxes should waiting until the Reavers are done recruiting to activate his reveal, so that he can prove he was not recruited.

And yet so far...I see no proof of it as true. While absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, it's still not a good sign. In addition his bullying of this massclaim despite quite a bit of pushback is not a good sign.

[ND]

Damn right I am voting for Xorxes and will continue to push him and vote for hi until he verifies his claim. He is the only fucking role in this GD game that can verify his role via GM. Everyone should be voting for him until he does it.

[BunnyGo]

Let me put it this way, how surprised would you be if the actual captain is letting xorxes hang himself, and is planning on having a reveal closer to EOD? I wouldn't say I'm expecting it, but it's definitely 10% in my mind (about the odds of coming back down 2 runs in the 9th inning).

[BunnyGo]

Hey ND, let's you and I put this xorxes thing aside for a second since we're both on. What would you be focusing on if this shit weren't going on?

[FlaviusAetius]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

I do think it's a valid strategy from a game theory perspective, but it is quite anti-spirit of the game in some ways. That said, there's no clear mechanical drawback to a massclaim in this setup.

Bounty-hunter, hello?
also im back guys, lots of new years stuff

[FlaviusAetius]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

I very much agree with xorxes analysis on the mass claim. We can't really worry about the neutral - we have no discernible way to parse who his targets are. We have a very solid amount of confirmable PRs that we can work out an optimal massclaim if we want to go that route.

That said, we know from pre-game that a few players such as worcej were firmly against it.

##vote chaqa
You specifically said there's no clear 'mechanical reason for not doing massclaim'
So....you know very well the bounty hunter is there, so clearly there IS A MECHANICAL reason NOT to do it. You just dont think it MATTERS
why did you act otherwise?

[FlaviusAetius]

Greetings everyone, glad to be back in this madness. The flavor of this bout is pretty cool. Never did watch the show, sadly, so some of this is lost on me. I am a big history buff on the space race and such, so I'm surprised I never watched it. Must've just split my time between to many others back in the day.

I'm also happy to see peterlund's site has gotten so much more detailed! Wow, I remember making my own vote trackers back in previous rounds and they were such a pain. I guess there's no need for that now?


Also,
##VOTE DARG
Let the man go see his grandkids.

Oh goodies a prepackaged and obvious prewritten post!! That's so lovely!!!!! Glad to have you back in this most welcoming community!!!

ooo, this is a really good point, hmm chaqa and goldfinger...seems like their on different scum teams

[FlaviusAetius]

Xorxes, Chaqa:

Since you are pushing the massclaim idea... We have 3 VTs, but 5 town think they are VT. Let's say the Mafia all claim VT too, to avoid CC's, then what's your prognosis? Up to 5 mislynches followed by a flawless town win?

who, says that? I know I saw absolutely no one claim anything yet

[FlaviusAetius]

@Xorxes now is probably not the best time for a mass claim LOL. That's cute though.

D1 is usually the best time for this because it forces scum to decide what to do before they have a chance to consult with their teammates. It also lets the Vig take a safe shot day one (they target one who claimed VT, no chance of hitting a PR) and if lucky, they can take a second shot N1. And if lucky again, a third shot D2, and so on. With a reduced pool where to shoot, basically a 50% chance, and probably better if some of the VTs are obvtown, it's much more likely that they will hit scum and get more shots. The cop can also target someone useful D1 instead of a random target that may end up being a wasted scan. There's lots of good reasons to massclaim.

I want to hear any good reasons not to massclaim. "Breaks the spirit of the game" is not a good reason. One of the main rules of the game is not to play against your win condition, and not doing everything you can to win goes against your win condition.

Its also to follow the spirit of the game, contradictory rules, I think spirit of game takes precedent
next up, everyone has to go on a mad hunt for the neutral, ALL THE WHILE, people are counter claiming left and right? come on my dude, lets not deal with a thousand problems at once