MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

lol my typo is hilarious. Oops.

I like Dargo’s idea. +town

[xorxes]

I guess I'm supportive of a mass claim when the captain gets GM verified... that'll do a lot for comfort level in confirming to me that the idea comes from a town source.

As long as I'm not counterclaimed, I should be your top townread at the moment, even if not a clear, unless you can come up with a sensible explanation for why I would pull this stunt as scum of any kind, and why nobody would counterclaim me. So all the shade you're throwing my way when I should be your top townread only makes you look scummy. Surely there's other people you can investigate more fruitfully instead?

@xorx This was your idea. Weigh in: Doc and Reader seem really important. What if they didn't participate in the claim, and only claimed if they were in danger of getting shot/lynched?

They can just claim undifferentiated PR as dargo suggested. Plenty of room to hide in there.

If Doc doesn't claim PR for example, they risk the Reader wasting their read on them. Or the companion roleblocking them, wasting both their powers.

[Jamiet99uk]

Still waitin', Xorx.

[e.m.c^42]

BRB, gonna go get some Chipotle and then type up a very long and detailed post about why we should assclaim

"Assclaim"?

Sounds kinky bro.

It's Chaqa n Chipotle, whaddya expect?
-------------

That creamy, satiny smooth avacado, spread all over the luscious, juicy meat wrapped in a tortilla, spurting as you bite -

Chaqa moaned, and suddenly woke up with hunger in his torso. Of all the things he could've dreamed about, oh god why.

But Chipotle.

He knew he had a character trait that made him partial to such foodstuffs, a particular weakness for this franchise - but he's never thought about it in that way before.

Distinctly uncomfortable, and rather tense, he rouses himself up from bed to splash water on his face. His breath unevenly fogs the mirror, face flushed and paling, mottled cheeks. Unbidden, the sensation of flared nose and lips while biting around - fuck he doesn't want to think about this.

Desperately, Chaqa throws himself at his laptop for a distraction. Flying through tabs, wikipedia-wikipedia-work-porn shit that doesn't help at all gmail-chipotle coupon fuck that's even worse webdiplomacy.net.

Ah. Webdip, and all the forum mafia that comes with it. The ultimate time procrastinating, consuming, and otherwise distracting place to be. With a sigh of relief, he navigates over to the thread and starts scrolling though the posts.

Mind abuzz with all the conspiracies natural, he starts tapping out vaguely crafted texts. After all, no point in revealing his hand of tinfoils early.

But unfortunately for Chaqa, he ends up reading this tripe hacked up by EMC and ends up hungrier than before. lol

[Chaqa]

Xorxes, I think your logic is flawed as we’ve had bolt PR claims before like me as Jekyll last game that weren’t true. I don’t doubt you, but your benefit to confirming your claim is astronomical here.

[Chaqa]

Oh god EMC why

[xorxes]

CLAIMS SO FAR:

Xorxes: Captain
Chaqa: VT


@Xorxes: Asking again - why do you think I am a VT? Seems a weird thing to assert before I've claimed. Demanding a massclaim and speculating what specific people are going to claim feels rather.... off.

I assumed you were VT because: you asked Chaqa what his role was after I claimed, thus you were seemingly in favor of the massclaim. You did not claim anything yourself, which suggested you had nothing to claim.

I no longer think you're VT though, or you wouldn't be making such a big deal of my simple question. So my guess right now is PR or scum.

[worcej]

Xorxes, I thought about your advice on the drive in to work, and I still don't see the benefit, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm just a bit Rusty and it'll come to me. But the only benefits I see don't jive with your massclaim push.

Other than that, I'd really like to hear more points of view in support of the massclaim. You're pushing it so hard and so frequently that we risk making this an echo chamber and drowning out other people. There's still people lurking hard. There's people who have just dropped in for one or two poorly written comments that show that they haven't really been reading the thread. And because the conversation is fixed on this, they're not getting pressure.

I think the gains of a mass-claim come at a cost, that has been illustrated numerous times via posting. I think your analysis was the best so far in terms of applying math (I didn't check it), but I think some people (xorxes) puts more value in any information gained than the potential costs of it.

I think the MC will throw scum teams and BH into a potential panic/misplay early by doing it now. Earlier in the phase, I thought saving a day (do it on D2) to do it would minimize the benefit to RP, but it also comes at a cost of potentially losing a good PR early.

I guess it comes down to what are you more concerned with - M1 or M2 (RP)? I honestly think M2 is the stronger group of the two, but starts out the weakest. I think our plans we make should be focused on reducing the potential of M2.

That being said: A clear downside to the MC is you will eliminate the potential of M1 accidently NK'ing M2 on N1.

Also agree a lot with the lack of participation from some people. We just passed a 'Vecna posting period' with no comments yet (unless I am not caught up yet to that point still). Also, nothing from Tom yet?

##vote Vecna - COME BACK TO ME MIGHTY CAESAR!

[worcej]

I hardclaim that I am not the Captain.

So much value with this one Jamie lol...

[xorxes]

Xorxes, I think your logic is flawed as we’ve had bolt PR claims before like me as Jekyll last game that weren’t true. I don’t doubt you, but your benefit to confirming your claim is astronomical here.

I'm obviously going to confirm my claim, but when I think it's best. People's reactions to someone not fully clear are much more interesting than people's reactions to a mechanical clear. Nobody will interact with me once I'm mechanically clear, it's more boring.

[BunnyGo]

##vote vecna, darlin' of my heart

y'all can take your park your policy votes somewhere else now ;p

##VOTE worcej. I don’t understand why Drunk Bunny (TM) didn’t like him last night. But I trust Drunk Bunny’s instincts. Also am parking my policy vote elsewhere.

[worcej]

Ｍａｙｂｅ Ｉ ｗｉｌｌ ｊｕｓｔ ｐｏｓｔ ｌｉｋｅ ｔｈｉｓ ａｌｌ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｔｉｍｅ ｓｉｎｃｅ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｓｅｅｍ ｔｏ ｂｅ ｉｇｎｏｒｉｎｇ ｍｏｓｔ ｏｆ ｍｙ ｐｏｓｔｓ ｓｏ ｆａｒ．

Please don't.

[teacon7]

Bozo post seems to be something in lojban a constructed language. I was not able to find a translator.

https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban&setlang=en

Bozo said:

xu ro'oi sampu numtca nakni

I found a dictionary. http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/

Here's the results.

xu = Definition: discursive: true-false question.

ro'oi = Definition: universal plural quantifier. ``All.''

sampu = Definition: x1 is simple/unmixed/uncomplicated in property x2 (ka).

numtca = Definition: $x1=n1=t1$ is a village/[rural town] of area $x2=n2=t2$, in
political unit $x3=t3$, serving hinterland/region $x4=t4$

nakni = Definition: x1 is a male/buck of species x2 evidencing masculine
physical/biological/genetic trait(s) x3 (ka); x1 is masculine.
Notes: See also fetsi, bersa. For culturally male traits, see
jikynakni.


I have no idea what the grammar of this language is. I'd have said "it's still random" except for the word "town" or "village" in there. Do a little bit of terrible sentence construction and you get bozo asking:

"Are all you guys town?"

[worcej]

Why do people keep perpetuating this silly notion that massclaims "ruin" a game? If the massclaim solves a game completely, then the game was broken to begin with, it started broken, it can't be ruined. Otherwise, a massclaim is just one more tool to help us solve the game, just like copscans, docsaves, GM reveals, etc.

We're not guaranteed to win with a massclaim, so the game is not broken. The only question here is whether a massclaim is beneficial to town or not at this stage, and my impression is that it is, so I will start it when I finish catching up, unless I read something in the meanwhile that makes me change my mind.

Highlighting that one sentence because we need to be better about ensuring these type of situations won't happen. As a community, we focus a lot more on mechanics than actually hunting and this won't be fixed until the mechanics elements of discussion during the game is eliminated

Not to go off on a game design tangent, but how is that possible, beyond always having closed setups?

You'll see in my next game.

[Chaqa]

Massclaim is not typically an issue on Day 1 unless a game is Role Madness or extremely PR heavy. In the past (pre-M30 or so) we rarely had setups with more than 3 or 4 PRs, so it wasn't an issue.

The Role Madness game we had the Assassin as a counter to massclaim. In the next game I run, there won't be enough for it to matter.

It comes down to the number of PRs relative to the overall # of players.

Unrelated-

My massclaim analysis was going to be about how we could confirm everyone's claims and such once it was done. If we are doing just PR vs VT claims it doesn't make sense yet, so I'm not gonna do it.

@xorx - I think now (a few hours before the 24 hour mark) is a good time to confirm yourself.

I also think once we have a reasonable number of claims, the vigilante should shoot someone who has claimed VT (and yes, I'm aware this includes me, but a VT's job is to be cannon fodder).

[teacon7]

Well, okay two things:

- Do you agree that Chaqa's responses to Xorxes' call for a massclaim were very hedgy?

- Do you think it's weird that Xorxes called on me to claim, and then asked me explicitly if I was going to claim VT? If he wants a real massclaim, what is he doing trying to call out in advance what he thinks people will claim?

- Do you think Peterlund has genuinely dumbslipped about the Reaver QT or lack thereof?

1) I thought he was hedgy. I'm a bit more sympathetic now that I've tried to wrestle with the idea myself. Given what xorx is talking about, I'm inclined to think chaqa's response is NAI due to the nature of the idea. Is the massclaim a good idea or not? I'd almost be suspicious if someone had strong opinions right away without engaging the idea.

2) idk why xorx asked if you were going to claim vt. maybe he scumread you and thought you were therefore going to claim vt. is he calling out "what people will claim" as a general rule, or specific to jamiet?

3) I don't think peter is dumb. Nor do I think he's the reaver. if anything, he missed when I asked about a reaver QT in the signup thread.

[xorxes]

- It reduces considerably the lynchpool for us to find scum.
- It eliminates the possibility that our PRs waste their powers or even harm the town with them.

Miscalculation, since I and probably some more people will not take part the mass-claim so the lynch pool will be considerably larger than 10 even if we believe all claimants claims...

Your non-participation is irrelevant to the massclaim's numbers unless you're a PR, so I take this as you implying you're a PR.

I would not recommend that the Vig shoots you today. However, if you do end up claiming VT at some point, you should be lynched immediately.

[Jamiet99uk]

I assumed you were VT because: you asked Chaqa what his role was after I claimed, thus you were seemingly in favor of the massclaim. You did not claim anything yourself, which suggested you had nothing to claim.

Ah, I see.

I called on Chaqa to claim because he had been the other person advocating (in his own hedgy way) for a massclaim. So I wanted him to put his money where his mouth was, so to speak. I was waiting to see if he suddenly used his hedging to fall back and refuse to claim.

[Chaqa]

Let's be real, the vig should just shoot Vecna before he gets to say anything so he gets frustrated

(this is a bad idea, please do not do this)

[Jamiet99uk]

@Xorxes: Now you have hardclaimed the Captain, and only Chaqa has followed you in massclaiming.

What do you think of this development?

Did you claim too early? Why did you not wait for more support?