MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[FlaviusAetius]

You got townie points for your first answer, then lost them with the rejoinder...

...loosing town pts for townreading you? Huh

"You know better than this, xorx" is a townread?

apparently in emc land

[Temasek22]

Ok, first impressions:

Most of these 13 pages is worthless. A bunch of "Shia Suo"

The massclaim idea is a bunch of "Joo Fuen Chse". Those gorram reavers and that "Go Neong Yung Duh" bounty hunter will take full advantage and we will not.

Worcej is out of character. I don't get it, and I don't like it.

I dunno about the rest. There's really not much to go on yet. ##Call GM "Ba Wong" If the reaver doesn't convert someone on N1 (say they are killed by scum, or saved by other means) do they get to keep converting until there are 3 reavers?

"Bao Jone", I'll try to check in before EOD.

For those that don't speak Chinese, Bunny meant this in the quotes.

[Chinese is widely spoken here in Singapore so ik what he means, although he didn't use the standard spelling. ]

Shia Suo = 瞎说 = bluff/nonsense

Joo Fuen Chse (the only one I'm not sure about) = 猪粪池 = a pool of pig manure

Go Neong Yung Duh = 狗娘养的 = son of a b**ch

Ba Wong = 霸王 = mighty emperor

Bao Jone = 保重 = take care/farewell

There you go. Hope this helps. Sorry pal.

ALL HAIL TEMASEK HAHAHA XP

[FlaviusAetius]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

So you were lying when you said you didnt believe in massclaim

Yea no

[Temasek22]

My first guesses:

1) no posting with a certain letter (like u) so post: the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

2) Only using one tense in posts: I had the idea, I have an idea, I will have an idea.

3) No direct quotes. (see above)

4) No questions: Don't you think that would be interesting?

5) Must have a typo in every post? Misspelling or something? This can be resolved with short posts of the quick brown fox...

I think Bunny and Chaqa are onto something here. When should we post those sentences?

This breaks the game, and I'm against it, dont do it

All right Flav, if you say so.

[FlaviusAetius]

I'm going to Flavius this game. Pre-read thoughts:

If EMC doesn't vote within the first 24 hours, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Kalel mentions his spreadsheet, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Vecna and/or xorxes survive past day 4, lynch their asses.

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Xorxes is Reaver Prime or on Mafia team 1. EZ game.

##Vote xorxes

WOOOOO my method is the single best method to exist out there in mafia, for ALL allignments, it also ruins the idea of meta, because thats nonsense anyway(thus i dont agree with your policy lynches, except for the xorxes and vecna thing...maybe)

[Temasek22]

I'm opposed to the massclaim. Counting the true VT s, the people who think they are VT s (backups) and scum, we would have 9 claims for VT. Add to that Mal and the bodyguard who likely would hide and we don't have a lynch pool that guarantees good lynches. We would lose to NK our PR s, and the BH would have excellent recruiting choices.

I also think that those who are guessing complex BH tells are wrong. It will be something easy for kit and Ike to find and spot.

*10, not 9. Also, I don't get your second paragraph, did you mean the reaver prime instead? The rPrime and bounty hunter are separate people.

[FlaviusAetius]

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Dear Reaver; do recruit me. I really want to find out what potentially ridiculous press restrictions there are, and how to bullshit 'em

This is town EMC.

emc is oddly super active so far though, that doesnt seem like town EMC to me, but then again, DOES IT MATTER? Use THE CONTENT!!!

[FlaviusAetius]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

100%

eh' its a complicated game, its nice to see people summarize stuff about the mechanics, I usually just ignore it and look back at it when it comes up

[Chaqa]

I'm opposed to the massclaim. Counting the true VT s, the people who think they are VT s (backups) and scum, we would have 9 claims for VT. Add to that Mal and the bodyguard who likely would hide and we don't have a lynch pool that guarantees good lynches. We would lose to NK our PR s, and the BH would have excellent recruiting choices.

I also think that those who are guessing complex BH tells are wrong. It will be something easy for kit and Ike to find and spot.

Disagree on the mass claim. Town PRs won't HIDE in a mass claim when the entire point is that it limits our mislynches. This is either some scum-backwards logic or you're just being silly.

[Chaqa]

Oh look Xorxes wanting a massclaim, that's new.

no way will I agree to a massclaim, not now and not ever
as for this set up, bounty hunter, hello?

Why? Something to hide, Scumvius?

[Chaqa]

My first guesses:

1) no posting with a certain letter (like u) so post: the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog

2) Only using one tense in posts: I had the idea, I have an idea, I will have an idea.

3) No direct quotes. (see above)

4) No questions: Don't you think that would be interesting?

5) Must have a typo in every post? Misspelling or something? This can be resolved with short posts of the quick brown fox...

I think Bunny and Chaqa are onto something here. When should we post those sentences?

This breaks the game, and I'm against it, dont do it

Breaks the game how? Maybe we found our reaver.

[Temasek22]

As for mass claim:

I believe the reaver team has the most to gain from an early mass claim unless they mess up and die D1/N1, they would know the ideal target to turn to reavers.

Town can quickly pin all 5 scum (the best chance they have is a 50/50) and are set to benefit. Downside is reaver 2 and 3.

Scumteam one can NK whoever causes the biggest threat. However they're all pinned so I don't see a way out for them.

The bounty hunter would be doomed without NKs and having lost the power to force lynches on their conf!Town targets.

That what I think at least. I'm on holiday so will be quite active for 3 or 4 real life days

[goldfinger0303]

Greetings everyone, glad to be back in this madness. The flavor of this bout is pretty cool. Never did watch the show, sadly, so some of this is lost on me. I am a big history buff on the space race and such, so I'm surprised I never watched it. Must've just split my time between to many others back in the day.

I'm also happy to see peterlund's site has gotten so much more detailed! Wow, I remember making my own vote trackers back in previous rounds and they were such a pain. I guess there's no need for that now?


Also,
##VOTE DARG
Let the man go see his grandkids.

Gold... is your justification for this purely altruistic? A random shot is not great odds. Thanks for confirming.

Kalel, just fishing for reactions. It was obviously an altruistic joke. Unfortunately opening phase press is a lot heavier than I remembered (15 pages in 6 hours? It used to be 20 in a whole day phase), so any reaction was just buried and people moved on. I also see people don't really do opening posts anymore. But just in case you're concerned with me sitting on it ##UNVOTE.

[goldfinger0303]

Getting a good town vibe from Chaqa. He's doing is usual stuff, and I would say that his "hedgyness" that other people are pointing out is really anything but. Other people are just trying to tar him. Xorxes I'm a bit confused about, because he's sticking his neck out so damn far, and on such a stupid idea that I'm surprised so many people are following.

With 10 PRs, it'll whittle down our lynch pool to basically a 50/50, which is better that we could normally hope for. This is true. However, it also ensures that the two mafia factions don't fight each other, pretty much guaranteeing that we'll lose 2 PRs the first two nights. Our roleblocker will not know who to target. Theirs will. They can ensure their hits go through. And this all supposes that VTs won't claim a PR to draw a NK (which has happened before in games I was in...not sure if that's in vogue now). Which would just throw everything into chaos.

If we don't mass claim, yes our lynch pool is bigger, and yes the chance of success goes from 50% to 25%. However, the scum chance of a good NK goes down from 100% to 50%. More importantly, the probability of *scum hitting other scum* is gonna be 20%. That's the ideal scenario here, folks. If they're left in the dark, they have the chance of killing each other.

Instead of mass claiming, I would put forward that our captain come forth. That way we know every lynch is going to be town led, or at least lessens the ability of scum to change wagons at the end of phase. Our pilot, doctor, and first mate are all safe and hidden to protect you during the night.

[Chaqa]

Getting a good town vibe from Chaqa. He's doing is usual stuff, and I would say that his "hedgyness" that other people are pointing out is really anything but. Other people are just trying to tar him. Xorxes I'm a bit confused about, because he's sticking his neck out so damn far, and on such a stupid idea that I'm surprised so many people are following.

With 10 PRs, it'll whittle down our lynch pool to basically a 50/50, which is better that we could normally hope for. This is true. However, it also ensures that the two mafia factions don't fight each other, pretty much guaranteeing that we'll lose 2 PRs the first two nights. Our roleblocker will not know who to target. Theirs will. They can ensure their hits go through. And this all supposes that VTs won't claim a PR to draw a NK (which has happened before in games I was in...not sure if that's in vogue now). Which would just throw everything into chaos.

If we don't mass claim, yes our lynch pool is bigger, and yes the chance of success goes from 50% to 25%. However, the scum chance of a good NK goes down from 100% to 50%. More importantly, the probability of *scum hitting other scum* is gonna be 20%. That's the ideal scenario here, folks. If they're left in the dark, they have the chance of killing each other.

Instead of mass claiming, I would put forward that our captain come forth. That way we know every lynch is going to be town led, or at least lessens the ability of scum to change wagons at the end of phase. Our pilot, doctor, and first mate are all safe and hidden to protect you during the night.

I was going to suggest the captain claim, but I’m pretty sure this would just lead to him being Reaver stolen. My understanding of the Protective roles is that they won’t stop the Reaving (or else why does the Doctor only have a 50% chance to stop it...?)

I’d write up a formal GM call but I’m about to go to sleep. Someone please check on it tonight?

[goldfinger0303]

Also, and this may just be 3am ramblings from me...but how worried should we be about the bounty hunter? Conceivably they could be able to win as soon as the second day. Its just a complete random crapshoot that I don't see how we have any control over.

But...my second related thought is - isn't it kinda scummy for town to worry about the bounty hunter? Because look at the win conditions. Town doesn't need to kill the 3rd party. We just need to lynch 4-6 scum. That's 8-12 dead people. Scum need to kill *many* more to win, so the third party is more of a threat to them than it is to us, no?

[goldfinger0303]

I was going to suggest the captain claim, but I’m pretty sure this would just lead to him being Reaver stolen. My understanding of the Protective roles is that they won’t stop the Reaving (or else why does the Doctor only have a 50% chance to stop it...?)

I’d write up a formal GM call but I’m about to go to sleep. Someone please check on it tonight?

I believe that the pilot and first mate would both protect against the reaver kill.

##CALL GM - can the pilot and First Mate protect a player from the reaver steal?

[Kitsune]

I was going to suggest the captain claim, but I’m pretty sure this would just lead to him being Reaver stolen. My understanding of the Protective roles is that they won’t stop the Reaving (or else why does the Doctor only have a 50% chance to stop it...?)

I’d write up a formal GM call but I’m about to go to sleep. Someone please check on it tonight?

I believe that the pilot and first mate would both protect against the reaver kill.

##CALL GM - can the pilot and First Mate protect a player from the reaver steal?

Yes.

[goldfinger0303]

Gee Chaqa, that was so hard :p

Thanks Kitsune

[peterlund]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

Both the prime Reaver convert power and Mafia 1 NK would be used against the the powerful town roles.

And as I said already in the signup thread "I will not be part of it" since it is against the spirit of the game.

But noted now that Xorxs and Chaqa are pushing "mass-claim D1" hard. For what purpose??