Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

[Foxcastle]

Awesome, so basically the Oracle, who still wants to remain hidden, is secretly redistributing the null vote and can't tell anyone where it landed. That seems super unhelpful for not knowing how to count votes at EOD...

You don't think taking a scum motivated vote out of the equation is good for town?

I think Town not having any idea if the vote count is accurate is bad for Town...

[Ezio]

It's more punishing for mafia to have confusion. Town just need to vote for their scumreads and push then. Scum are the ones who actively care about the precise count of every wagon.

[Foxcastle]

It's more punishing for mafia to have confusion. Town just need to vote for their scumreads and push then. Scum are the ones who actively care about the precise count of every wagon.

Until you're risking a tie vote, because you don't know if the leading wagon is one vote down or not...

[xorxes]

@Fox, what is the benefit to Town (not to Fox or to ghug, to Town) of not knowing exactly who has the DD tag?

[Durga]

Answer my question Fox or I'll lynch you first.

[Durga]

Shit I'm thinking at this point they need to both die.

I'm also thinking that it would be awesome to have the Oracle visit DD - which keeps the scan on the previous DD who I think is the rb - and keeps DD on the Oracle. Which means, that if scum want to kill the Oracle - they'll have to sacrifice a mafia, and we get a clear or a scum either way. Oracle's vote is useless but they can direct the town, unless they're shit but w/e - and if they want their vote to count they can always just pass off dd - and they can also let town know who got it if that's a concern (preferably to a scum read/someone scummy - so if mafia want to kill the Oracle they have to clear a town anyway)

[Foxcastle]

Durga, it's possible that the RB is DD, and that's why we haven't had reports that anyone was roleblocked. The odds on that are low, but not impossible. However, there are alternate explanations for N1, like maybe someobody who's dead already forgot to say it, or someobody doesn't check their PMs now that we've got two duplicate systems for that, or nesdunk doesn't know he should pipe up about that. Or that they RB'd snowy before shooting him, because they thought he could be the cop. We were scum together not that long ago, and laughed our asses off (at least I did) when Town came up with their theories that in actuality were just townies being stupid.

So it's possible, but it's also possible that the explanation is that there's a dumbass among the 17 of us who started.

[Durga]

Durga, it's possible that the RB is DD, and that's why we haven't had reports that anyone was roleblocked. The odds on that are low, but not impossible. However, there are alternate explanations for N1, like maybe someobody who's dead already forgot to say it, or someobody doesn't check their PMs now that we've got two duplicate systems for that, or nesdunk doesn't know he should pipe up about that. Or that they RB'd snowy before shooting him, because they thought he could be the cop. We were scum together not that long ago, and laughed our asses off (at least I did) when Town came up with their theories that in actuality were just townies being stupid.

So it's possible, but it's also possible that the explanation is that there's a dumbass among the 17 of us who started.

Did we? I don't remember any laughing in that game. I remember getting totally slaughtered.

And, the very fact that this is a possibility - but you don't want to reveal it because... idek why tbh, you should be honoured if you get nk'd, and better yet - the oracle can scan one of you if they wish - is what worries me. The fact that *you're* coming up with even more RIDICULOUS theories (quite specific ones at that) on where the roleblock went is even more suspect and stupid imo.

Our job as town is to figure out the game, not guess at things. Always remember, that if ghug is mafia and you're not - he knows the answer and the only people left in the dark is town. The fact that you're so confident in him, leaves me feeling off. So if you're town, it's in your best interest to inform us of your nametag.

[Foxcastle]

@Fox, what is the benefit to Town (not to Fox or to ghug, to Town) of not knowing exactly who has the DD tag?

There's some benefit in having that one vote be accounted for to one person, so ghug and I can vote freely without trying to protect each other.

If ghug and I are both town, it protects both of us from the NK, and I think it's beneficial to Town to constrain mafia's options.

If ghug or I is scum and the other is town, then the scumteam know who has DD and still won't NK either of us. That's a slight negative for town, because they don't know if one of us is being spared the NK because we're scum or because the mafia aren't sure.

If ghug and I are both scum, we're already not being NK'd, then we're probably making the third scumteam do all the work. (This would align itself much more closely to Durga's theory.)

[Foxcastle]

It's hardly ridiculous to speculate that the reason there was no N2 roleblock is because Snowy died before he could tell us. It's also hardly ridiculous or specific to assert that some towny is/was being dumb about not noticing their PMs or that the hooker actually just didn't put an order in.

[Durga]

@Fox, what is the benefit to Town (not to Fox or to ghug, to Town) of not knowing exactly who has the DD tag?

There's some benefit in having that one vote be accounted for to one person, so ghug and I can vote freely without trying to protect each other.

If ghug and I are both town, it protects both of us from the NK, and I think it's beneficial to Town to constrain mafia's options.

If ghug or I is scum and the other is town, then the scumteam know who has DD and still won't NK either of us. That's a slight negative for town, because they don't know if one of us is being spared the NK because we're scum or because the mafia aren't sure.

If ghug and I are both scum, we're already not being NK'd, then we're probably making the third scumteam do all the work. (This would align itself much more closely to Durga's theory.)

The scumteam already knows which one of you is DD in both your second and third scenario, so no - you're not making the third scum do "all the work" whatever that means.

And honestly, I don't think protecting you and ghug from the NK is anything worth protecting for the town. Especially since both of you are scummy as shit rn - what it IS doing, is preventing the Oracle from investigating either of you.

[rdrivera2005]

I confess I am having trouble to understand why Ghug and Fox not peeking is good for town if both are town.
From what I got the point on not peeking is making scum unable to nk any of them to avoid taking the DD role. But at this point it makes little sense, with Durga theory of the rb being DammDaniel if Ghug and Fox don´t peek one of them will end lynched and if we choose the wrong one (or both are town) it will be very detrimental to town.
I am also pretty sure that Bozo and Xorxes are scum, they are so happy to have Durga targetting Ghug and Fox that it´s pretty obvious, the Xorxes "I am not leader" act is amazing.

[Durga]

Holy fuck - ok I'm not arguing anymore. Clearly both of you want to be lynched

**EVERYONE** put your votes on one of ghug or foxcastle, i literally don't care which, they're both ridiculous.. although ghug should really be getting this so prioritize your vote on him imo, if only one of them is scum then I'm thinking it's ghug

Everyone else is off the table until they reveal who DD is, first one to reveal gets bonus points from me.

[Foxcastle]

Why is it a good thing to out the Oracle by giving them DD??? That just means that the scumteam can avoid the oracle in the NK to ensure that the oracle power doesn't reveal a townclear or peg a scum. If we're going to lose a townie to the NK, at least if it happens to be the oracle we get some additional information out of it.

[Durga]

Why is it a good thing to out the Oracle by giving them DD??? That just means that the scumteam can avoid the oracle in the NK to ensure that the oracle power doesn't reveal a townclear or peg a scum. If we're going to lose a townie to the NK, at least if it happens to be the oracle we get some additional information out of it.

Great, the Oracle can use their discretion to figure out what they want to do. AND THEY CAN SCAN THE OTHER FUCKING PERSON IF THEY WANT TO

[xorxes]

@Fox, what is the benefit to Town (not to Fox or to ghug, to Town) of not knowing exactly who has the DD tag?

There's some benefit in having that one vote be accounted for to one person, so ghug and I can vote freely without trying to protect each other.

Sorry, not following that one. Could you rephrase?

If ghug and I are both town, it protects both of us from the NK, and I think it's beneficial to Town to constrain mafia's options.

A minimal constraint, two don't-nk instead of one. It has to be weighed against the benefits of town knowing.

If ghug or I is scum and the other is town, then the scumteam know who has DD and still won't NK either of us. That's a slight negative for town, because they don't know if one of us is being spared the NK because we're scum or because the mafia aren't sure.

So this is a point in favor of disclosure.

If ghug and I are both scum, we're already not being NK'd, then we're probably making the third scumteam do all the work. (This would align itself much more closely to Durga's theory.)

So we need to know which one is DD.

[Foxcastle]

Also, to answer directly another question you've put out there, Durga: I have been townreading ghugh, but it's certainly possible he's scum.

[Durga]

Also, to answer directly another question you've put out there, Durga: I have been townreading ghugh, but it's certainly possible he's scum.

yeah everyone town reads ghug until he does something outwardly scummy like idk... shoot maniac or... fight back against the obvious town move of revealing who dd is

[Durga]

@rd - place your vote on ghug or foxy knoxy

[Foxcastle]

I'm logging off shortly.

I'm willing to peek and reveal when we've worked out the protocol that will get us the most information or is most likely to lead to a scum lynch.