MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[xorxes]

“ I don't refuse being a mafia member for now, ”

Wut

Maybe he wants to negotiate. If he is in the Moriarty band, we join forces with them to find the other team.

What a totally weird thing to say when there were still 2 of those member

You think I was being serious? I need to polish my literary arts.

[Vecna]

Ah
I apologise from the town if I get mislynched. I'm not a good town player. The ridiculous thing is I'm more towny when I'm actually scum.
##vote Tom Bombadil

This is 100% true

[Vecna]

“ I don't refuse being a mafia member for now, ”

Wut

I'm trying to make a stonger meaning for denying SK. Apparently literary arts don't work same in every langıage.

I meant: I'm not mafia, but being mafia is more likely than being SK

I fully accept that you were not actually admitting to being scum, and you were just trying to say that if you were scum, being Mafia was (purely statistically) more likely than being SK.

But an argument from statistics is not really apt here. The interest in the VT role is more likely to come from Jack than from anyone else.

And there's one other thing: in my opinion, there's two, maybe three people that have outed themselves as having female roles (I'm obviously not going to discuss who they are). If Jack had been playing and paying attention from the start, they probably would have detected them, since that's their biggest concern. You had the disadvantage in this respect of coming late and so you are much more likely than anyone else to have missed those clues.

(or from a clumsy town pr)

[Vecna]

Neither BunnyGo or damo stated any strong scum reads recently, I do not see a reason why they would have been targeted based on their reads. BunnyGo did move his vote around a lot D2, he likely was voting for a scum at some point. I could see that post by damo being interpreted as a cop crumb.

More of this fluffy theorizing why people would have been killed. High scum potential

[Vecna]

Some random thoughts;

Im not sure whether to be happy with Xorxes' readslist or to be suspicious that he's copying general sentiment. There really are no "stand-out hot-takes" that Xorxes is normally prone to do as town. It feels like he's more or less, really at the same place as me......which begs the question; Are you copying me, bro?

The one thing I just cannot fathom from that list; Me on a team with Chaqa? After semi death-tunneling him? Why would I vote him if I knew he was likely gonna be cc'd? The truth of the matter, which I probably shouldnt even admit, was that I totally forgot he had made that claim when I voted him out of the gates on D2. His dance around the Bob wagon was extremely suspicious, which is why I wanted him dead. Also, this sentiment is from later on - Chaqa as town is generally a lot more care-nothing-in-your-face, here he seems to have this whole plan, and path-dependant shit going on. Im suspicious. Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I really dont like his shit.

EMC seems very happy to be buddy-buddy with me. In previous games when I was being less serious, he was showing a modicum of suspicion. Here there is very little of that. He just seems to be happy in this state of where he likes me and I like him. Which is all well and good. But it still leaves a bit of a sour taste. Maybe someone with a spreadsheet should compare this behavior with past games to see if my suspicion has some merit.

Ok, that turned out to be too much of a wall. To my defense, alcohol mightve played a role in these random ramblings.

xorxes isn't pushing, he's participating and thats a problem, because usually he's a town leader,a nd no longer. Thats ok though not everyone gets to play the same game each time, but what I see a problem with him, is that there's no sense of urgency. Like folks we just lost two town and no one is freaking out, we should be freaking out right now, we need to hit scum, so vote yavu

Xorxes as 3P last game was pushing way harder than he usually does as town, was way more of a town leader than he normally is as town. I may disagree with a lot of his nonsense here, but I feel he's much more likely town X than not-town X here.

He's gotten a lot better at being the non-timed xorxes as scum these days, and usually just lays semi-low as town to not get instakilled.

[xorxes]

He's gotten a lot better at being the non-timed xorxes as scum these days, and usually just lays semi-low as town to not get instakilled.

I can't speak to the first, when I'm scum I try my best, if you say I've gotten better that's great, I still don't enjoy it. But you're wrong about the second one. I don't do anything special to not get instakilled. It's more what others do that doesn't get me instakilled. It's kind of selfcorrecting. Becoming obvious target for kill also makes you an obvious target for saves and watches, and so it sort of compensates.

[Vecna]

Can someone explain the case on yavu?

I really think voting for Vecna or Tom is better.

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

1: im the #5 poster while ive been gone for half the game. This is just bullcrap
2: There have been 2 kills so far and other stuff mightve happened youre not aware of
3: This has been brought up so many times now. You were scummy as all hell around the bob lynch. My vote had nothing to do with claims. Also, I voted you before ND said anything. Even if I was scum, how would I know he wasnt docsaved or the commuter? How would I straight up know you were lying and werent actually J&H? This is such a terrible argument.

How about you judge me on actual play? Because im pretty sure if you do that you'll conclude im obv-town in no time

[Vecna]

He's gotten a lot better at being the non-timed xorxes as scum these days, and usually just lays semi-low as town to not get instakilled.

I can't speak to the first, when I'm scum I try my best, if you say I've gotten better that's great, I still don't enjoy it. But you're wrong about the second one. I don't do anything special to not get instakilled. It's more what others do that doesn't get me instakilled. It's kind of selfcorrecting. Becoming obvious target for kill also makes you an obvious target for saves and watches, and so it sort of compensates.

You might not be aware of it yourself, but im not actually wrong on #2 and its been a new standard ive been using recently to judge your play. It often depends on your type of role as well, but you are pretty often quiet'ish as town recently. Not always, but often enough.

[Vecna]

What was your case on Vecna? Mine hinges a lot on you being scum, so I would be interested to hear your case.

My thinking is:
1. Vecna has been abnormally quiet even outside the pre-defined times he told us pre-game.
2. He hasn’t been fearkilled.
3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

It’s not super strong but it’s a reasonable doubt.

I’d prefer Tom tbh. Or others who have rubbed me as odd, but I haven’t had time to formally write it all down yet.

1. If you look at the global statistics he is the 5th top poster, so I don't know about abnormally quiet. I think he is, but everyone else is as well, and worse (Kitsune, RHK, rivera, dargo...)

2, Bleh

3. That's the thing that bothers me the most. You didn't seem too concerned about it at the time though.

well at least im glad I wasnt the first to adress this

[Vecna]

3. He voted for me before ND reveal, seemed like he may have already known who was lying (as he would have known ND was saved)

Wait, wait, he voted for you before ND had said anything. What do you mean "seemed like he may have already known who was lying"?

You had claimed that you would save yourself as Jekyll. There was no reason for anyone to doubt that other than:

- the real Jekyll
- someone who was your scummate and therefore knew you were not Jekyll

Someone who was scum but not your scummate would have no idea that you were lying. Even if they tried to kill ND and failed, that could have been because ND was commuter, or because Dr Watson saved ND. The fact that their kill of ND failed in no way would suggest that you were lying about being Jekyll.

So, no, you're making stuff up. This is a reason you came up with later to justify your read of Vecna, it is not something you could have thought at that time.

ta-da

[Vecna]

Okay, want to get a vote in just in case on a busy day, but has to be justified.
Did full game ISO on top 3...

##Vote CmdrLikely

And here's why (admittedly many of these only hold weight in context after knowing identities)....

D1
Pg7 - Shitty icebreaker (according to ND... more below)
Pg21 - Vote Computer_Genius due to low posting, but only posted 4 times themselves
Pg26 - Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob, with efforts to align/pocket ND
D2
Pg44 Suspicious of Frostwind
Pg52 - Kill ND and Chaqa and town will be sitting pretty.
Pg64 - Argument with Flav and Xorx, very adamantly stating ND is town liability.
Pg82 - The infamous "I was trying my best to be town"
Pg99 - ND votes purple, response, "LOL, are you sure?" (He's clearly sparing with ND who is the closest thing to a town clear we have).
Page 102 - Voting Flav because he's voting Yav (well several others are voting Yav too). Then turns around and questions Yav?

Between these items and the fact that I town-lean Xorx and Bionic after ISOing them here's my vote.

UGh, I find myself skipping these posts most of the time, but maybe I really should start reading them. What a load of horseshit. Why dont you tell us why you townread Bionic? (or point me towards the wall that contains that reasoning).

[Vecna]

Tbh, I doubt SK would get subbed out twice. One of them would have been excited enough to have the opportunity to play as a 3rd party.

Correct, that's why I am VT. And as I am VT, that's why I looked for VT PM.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that, so I will ask GM to reveal a proof.

Yav, you are getting weirder, you know pretty well GMs can't give any proof.

I still don't much of a real reason to vote Cmdr or purplecow other then lurking and in this case Kit, Hosuke or even me are probably lurking even more.

Both Yavu and Chaqa are good lynch candidates, my problem with Yav wagon is who are on it, I suspect both Tom and Tem and Bozo isn't much towny too.

I reallly don't like Chaqa answer to Xorxes, it seems fabricated, but I still don't buy this Chaqa and Vecna are scum together thing. I think one of then is scum, just not sure which.

##vote Chaqa while I try to re-read both EODs that I missed.

This puts another dent in the "Chaqa = last team M" theory. Setting that wagon up to be a very reasonable contender when youre the only 2 remaining seems pretty damn unlikely, despite Rdrivera's fondness of busses.

[Vecna]

Have we ever known these GM s to be careless?

Got a little omgus going, yavu?

Really disliking Darg's posts this day

[Vecna]

RDR ISO,

Remember this is just a list of observations... where I think it's clear I'll put +/-/?
Generally I do it this way because other peoples observations about my observations are the most helpful for me... I'm collaborative that way.

Day 1 (13 posts, Vote Damo)
? Pocketing Xorx
- Weak gut vote Damo - "I have feeling he's on Burke & Hare" (why so specific?)
Misremember Jacks rules (Is RDR usually a stickler for rules?)

N1 (2 Posts)
? Scum reading Damo, Frost move from computer to vapor is scum101 (RDR was wrong on these, but that doesn't means scummy, could just be throwing ideas out).

D2 (15 Posts, Vote Chaq then Un then Frost)
+ After exchange with Chaq concedes point of what Mafia knows.
+ Had justification for Frost vote. Wrong, but at least thought it through.
"I have to agree with Bunny, Bozo and Vecna (which I think that are likely town) that lynching ND tomorrow is probably a bad idea."
Other towns: Flav, Chaqa....
- Then accuses Chaqa of budding up to Bozo (giving him credit for good scumhunting) - if RDR really thinks they're both town then what's the point of pointing out pocketing?

N2 (2 Posts)
- "Frost was scummy and would have been a liability anyway." (Originally, after the first D/N I thought we had it good. But now that I see how deadly nights can be I don't think we should take loosing any Townies, even VTs, lightly).
Does admit to seeing too much Town.

D3 (7 Posts as of Page 109, Post 2172: Vote Chaq and switch to Tom)
- "Two dead VTs isn't the worst result for the night and neither the better. " (Again, pretty casual about loosing two more of us).
+ Pushes back on Purple for Sheeping

Kalel's Observations - RDR was scum read by me early, but only because others were more town read. Now that I look at the posts it's not one thing that does it but his general attitude towards Town getting killed.

I don't like Commanders reaction to my ISO, but at least he was passionate in responding.

##Vote RDRiera

Kit, oh Kit, where for art thou? Bunny is gone and I need someone who knows how to pour through my post filled posts.

One of the critical votes breaking the tie-situation with Yavuz/Chaqa/Rdrivera before the Tom reveal. Not on Team M

[Vecna]

I stand behind my vote. Dargorygel is absent and voting me only because he doesn't think GM could have been careless.

"Have we ever known these GM s to be careless?

Got a little omgus going, yavu?"

Really? I'm not claiming them to be careless or clumsy. You should understand this better than everyone Dargo. You invited me to the game on Discord, I didn't accept because I was busy later I saw your invitation again when I had more time, so signed up for the subs list, again on Discord. Only in 2 days I was put in the game. And again, on Discord, GM informed me. It was possible to send a PM, but it was easier so they chose this. Now get off my wagon so I get off yours.

Although this is believable, the use of out of game information in concerning.

If it really was concerning and rules were broken, im pretty sure Jamiet being the person he is would have modkilled the slot instantly. So if you find it believable, why is it concerning?

[Vecna]

I am leaving now to get my daughter to a dance presentation, will try to be around at EOD, but if I can't and you decide to lynch me, please lynch Tom tomorrow.

This is not the post of a scum.

LOL I don't know what the case on him is, but yeah scum retreat from the thread all the time haha. wtf?

Especially scum Rdrivera, and only popping in back at EoD if he has to save himself

[Vecna]

I just think scum would not claim female because of Jack.

OK, but I am finding it hard to believe any Chaqa claim at this point.

Sigh.

I rolled female VT, knew that female roles were dangerous to Jack, and came up with what I thought would be a very interesting and effective strategy for me to leverage an early death into information.

I had now way of knowing ND would be strong-crumbing Sherlock and then get targeted by everyone and their mother, turning the entire thing into a clusterfuck. Then on Day 2, I wanted to see if any mafia members showed their hand, but I TBH haven't examined it too closely yet and it probably caused more confusion than insight...

Regardless of everything, I do find this plausible and believable

[e.m.c^42]

and at this point, about half hour from EOD, she pops up and has enough reads that it's obvious enough to a point that it was lurking, not being gone? Like, there is enough to see that she's read up most of what was missed. Lurker pool this game is actually very nice place to hide, as there are so many.

You give me too much credit Einstein, although I do appreciate your expert opinion on how much attention lurkers pay to what's going on.

I read the bot for the day end to end from like... 2.5 hours before EoD to 1.5 hours. There wasn't much.

From that, I had reads - and you can see them in the order I found them from my first post of the day.

It is simply that I have been impressed with past performance, which has not showed this game of yet :)

[yavuzovic]

Right, I misread Tom's post as saying he saw Rdr watching Xorxes.

On re-read he's saying he watched Xorx, which makes SOME sense.

Except.

I still don't see any roles who could have done anything suspect to Xorxes N1.

He wasn't night killed.

He wasn't roleblocked, because that was on ND.

He couldn't have been grave robbed, he wasn't dead.

And we know Rdr isn't Moriarty, because he's dead.

I know we're short on time, but this doesn't quite gel for me.

KIt, you're still not getting it. Tom is saying:

On Night 1, he INVESTIGATED RIVERA and got a Guilty (Evil) scan.
On Night 2, he WATCHED XORXES and hasn't said if anyone visited xorx.

the cop in this game is like a JOAT Cop with 4 one-shot abilities.

Oh.

Well then I don't feel comfortable voting for either of them so I'll go back to my original scumlean and you can use that information after I'm nk'd shortly.

You don't need my vote on Rdr anyway.

##vote bozo

I see that we can eliminate one of the factions if we lynch who posted this.

[e.m.c^42]

STOP TALKINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Your logic isn't necessarily wrong, it's just that I think the benefits of talking outweighs that of silence :D

although, was wondering - what would you do in games with day chat?

we already have 48 hours worth of talking thats more than enough to discuss, 24 hour, especially with mafia being able to openly communicate not a good idea!
and we already have day chat, so what do you mean

Yes, and note that I was not here for most of the 48 hours due to inane personal reasons lol

Daychat setups are games where the mafia chat is open 24/7, parallel to the main thread - we have them now and then. Am of opinion activity is pro-town, regardless of timing for myriad of reasons. Also, have tried out setup where main thread is closed at night, which I rather dislike lmao. It kills momentum, and freshness of thought.