MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the TomBomb

Herein I lay out why I and others think Tom is scum.

Part the First: Meta

That's the first decent reason to vote me, I feel I am doing a pretty shitty job at scumhunting.

##vote Tom, he is better then this as town.

Nope. This is how I operate every game. I rule out people I think are town. Get my POE pool and vote from there. You seem the most likely to be scum (and on Bobs team) for your D1 actions, you haven’t do anything to make me think you are town, and are a dangerous scum player. POE says you should be the lynch.

Here, Tom claims that this short, concise, poorly-supported methodology is how he normally operates. Without getting into specifics, let's look at the numbers game. This game, per the bot, Tom's words per post is 26.14. Let's find historical Tom games.

In M47, Tom was town with 36.63 words per post.
In M46, Tom was town with 32.73 words per post.
In M43, Tom was town with 24.72 words per post.
In M42, Tom was town with 35.71 words per post.
In M1006, Tom was town with 29.03 words per post.
In M40, Tom was town with 29.77 words per post.
In M39, Tom was town with 28.92 words per post.
In M34, Tom was town with 34.18 words per post.
In M33, Tom was town with 47.66 words per post.
In M32, Tom was town with 32.30 words per post.
In M30, Tom was town with 39.43 words per post.
In M29, Tom was mafia with 100.64 words per post.
in M28, Tom was town with 80.85 words per post.
In M27, Tom was town with 79.51 words per post.
In M26, Tom was town with 73.32 words per post.

This is the extent of the records. Worth noting:
1. Tom has barely ever been scum, and it was actually his highest-posting game, but I don't know for sure if it's a conclusive data point since it was so long ago.
2. Tom's 26.14 in this game is his lowest EVER with the exception of M43.

Point: I don't think it's definitive, but it definitely disproves his "this is how I am as town" point.

Part the Second: Vaporwave and the Knife

While holding Tom accountable for Vaporwave isn't completely fair, Vaporwave shared whatever role Tom now has. A key point against Vapor and therefore Tom was this post by Vapor:

Hyde doesn't win, but Jekyll does with town?

Anyway, there are so many nuances to this character, I think Jack is far more dangerous

Jack + scumbags, that's where we need to look

also I'm not sure if someone else killing a female will input a success onto Jack or rather that he needs to kill those ladies with his own knife

Bolded emphasis mine. "his own knife" is a very specific phrasing.

In last game, we learned Vaporwave has a tendency to not completely read through the setup, and specifically highlights key points of his own role PM (such as the bad-Hammer play before the restart). So, where did he get this "knife" talk from? Let's check this search:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?word=knife&g=51

In fact, before Vaporwave, NO ONE in the game thread uses the word knife. It is however mentioned prominently in two role PMs:

You are WILLIAM BURKE, the GRAVE ROBBER

During the day you must vote for a suspect.
Once per game, at NIGHT, you may visit the grave of a character that has died by whatever means. You will recover any ITEMS which had been in their possession on their death, and may use those items just as if you were their original owner, although limited-use items are not recharged.

If you obtain a NOTEBOOK, you will find out who the owner of that notebook investigated, and the results – obtaining a notebook does not give you the ability to scan, track or watch for yourself. If you obtain Jack’s KNIFE, this does not give your team an additional nightkill. Instead, if you yourself are targeted by a nightly killing action while in possession of the knife, you will kill your assailant instead (the knife is then discarded).

You are part of Burke and Hare’s Company. You win when the Town, and the other Mafia faction, and Jack the Ripper are dead, or nothing can stop this from happening.

You are JACK, the WHITEHALL RIPPER

On EVEN numbered nights, you may perform a Night Kill using your KNIFE (item) on any player. If you target Mr. Hyde, your attack will fail.

You win the game if either of the following points is reached:

1. You have personally killed THREE female characters with your knife, by any point in the game.

2. The game reaches a point where only you and Dr.Jekyll / Mr.Hyde are left alive. At that point, Mr.Hyde wins with you, and Dr.Jekyll the rest of town, and the Mafia factions (which by this point are dead) all lose.

You are Third Party NK immune.

My conclusion, based on Vapor's specific phrasing, is that he is William Burke, as it talks specifically about JACK's knife. Who else does this? VAPOR:

Jack or rather that he needs to kill those ladies with his own knife

Vaporwave's ESL issues aside, I find this to fit with his history of "slips" and not reading setups thoroughly beyond his own role. Let's move on though to...

Part the Third: Votes

Vaporwave basically begins and is the primary pusher on the Bob wagon. While lynching scum would normally be a huge town-benefit, in this setup it also would indicate he could be a part of the other scum team. The fact he had NO qualms about Bob's death means he is VERY unlikely to be on Scum Team 1, but being on Scum Team 2 is certainly possible.

On Day 2, Tom has taken over, and spends most of the day pushing either me or Rivera before settling on Temasek. Not super alignment-indicative but it's interesting he is one of the few (relatively) people who does not join the Frostwind wagon. On Day 3 now, he has continued pushing Rivera now, but he apparently has lost all reason for voting Temasek?

The voting record is not quite as useful yet as it will be later, but I felt it should be included.

-------------------------------------------------

Make of this all what you will. A more thorough look into his posts will come, probably during the night if we don't lynch him.

For ND.

[ND]

This is what I gather:

Yav: The slot. That's the best real evidence out there really. I might vote Yav actually.

Tom: ?

Rd: ? and no he isn't disqualified because he posted a message an hour ago saying he he had to go. I do that crap all the time when I'm scum. Retreating from the thread when under fire is a valid strategy. Anyone who has played or been around for 50 games knows that Chaqa. Come on now.

Purplecow, still suspicious imo.

OK, sure, you still somehow miss the Tom case we've all been talking about since Vapor's knife comment on Day 1. Cool.

So glad you're our conf Town.

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but it is what it is. No point in crying about it.

[FlaviusAetius]

If I was to make a case on any of my 'names' then I promise you it would dwarf anything, any of you have ever seen. Maybe I will, but if I spelled out every little thing I did then that would often defeat the purpose.

There have already been some interesting commentary on it from Bionic, Cmdr, and Purple. Purple's own immediate 'fall in line' post to Cmdr a few pages back was beyond interesting.

ND I hope you understand you need to unleash these cases like soon, so we can talk about them, you cant hold them in forever, you might get NKed...

[Kitsune]

I also read Tom. Not just because of the "lazy" reasons Xorces cites, although lazy and time-poor often look close to one another.

I'm reluctant to sheep onto Yavu and I'm partly convinced by recent posts defending rdr (and I don't like his wagon).

Moving vote to:

##vote Tom Bombadil

[e.m.c^42]

I think the focus on Vapor's knife comment is somewhat inane. Lmao. If he was scum asking he would do it in a PM, he's not stupid.

[xorxes]

Einstein feels rather not limpid and vaguely dead

catching up, catching up, what happened to the resolution of lynching the Jekyll/Hyde slot?

Nobody really made any effort to push for that.

Don't recall much of argument for, but anyone think it is worth it? I mean, the more the game goes on the more we will lose interest in ever lynching him, most likely.

It won't happen today.

[Chaqa]

I also read Tom. Not just because of the "lazy" reasons Xorces cites, although lazy and time-poor often look close to one another.

I'm reluctant to sheep onto Yavu and I'm partly convinced by recent posts defending rdr (and I don't like his wagon).

Moving vote to:

##vote Tom Bombadil

I want to mark this post for later. Kitsune JUST had voted for rivera and all of the sudden is "convinced" by the absolutely shitty defense I made on rivera? AND YOU DON'T LIKE HIS WAGON?

Then why did you vote for him LITERALLY less than an hour ago?

REMEMBER THIS POST.

[ND]

Yeah, I never had time to make a case man. It's been a busy weekend. As for the Tom case it's not good. It's a case built entirely on meta (basically) with a small tidbit from Vapor that doesn't really mean much. Tom is a weak vote and a weak case.

[Chaqa]

I think the focus on Vapor's knife comment is somewhat inane. Lmao. If he was scum asking he would do it in a PM, he's not stupid.

EMC... he's the guy who revealed himself with the Hammer in Day 1 when it would/should have caused a tie vote in M50. This is disingenuous from you.

If Tom flips scum EMC is a likely teammate.

[ND]

Sometimes a meta case is valid, maybe if you feel it is go for it, but imo it's pretty weak.

[e.m.c^42]

##vote Kit

lemme build a shitty case, full of wifom joy, at 20 minutes from EOD

:v

[FlaviusAetius]

Tbh, I doubt SK would get subbed out twice. One of them would have been excited enough to have the opportunity to play as a 3rd party.

Never assume, but I doubt yavu is SK as well

[ND]

I'll join EMC

##VOTE KIT

[e.m.c^42]

I think the focus on Vapor's knife comment is somewhat inane. Lmao. If he was scum asking he would do it in a PM, he's not stupid.

EMC... he's the guy who revealed himself with the Hammer in Day 1 when it would/should have caused a tie vote in M50. This is disingenuous from you.

If Tom flips scum EMC is a likely teammate.

Lmao yeah, he's overlooked details, but it's because of that that I think he'd be more careful this time around. Like, you fuck up once, so you pay more attention next time, y'know?

[FlaviusAetius]

Why should scum have had ND as their only identified PR though? And what did you mean by doctors being already busy with something else?

Does anyone else notice only two people went after bunny; tom and xorxes makes you think!

What does it make you think? That we were scared of him? That someone is trying to set one of us up? Something else?

It makes me think you two are trying to have an excuse when people start coming after you for the shifty things you two have been doing

[Chaqa]

I think the focus on Vapor's knife comment is somewhat inane. Lmao. If he was scum asking he would do it in a PM, he's not stupid.

EMC... he's the guy who revealed himself with the Hammer in Day 1 when it would/should have caused a tie vote in M50. This is disingenuous from you.

If Tom flips scum EMC is a likely teammate.

Lmao yeah, he's overlooked details, but it's because of that that I think he'd be more careful this time around. Like, you fuck up once, so you pay more attention next time, y'know?

Eh.... people don't change that much.

I would vote for Kit but I prefer to answer the Tom question today. Kit is a very good and much better counterwagon than Yavu, though.

[xorxes]

I think the focus on Vapor's knife comment is somewhat inane. Lmao. If he was scum asking he would do it in a PM, he's not stupid.

Vapor is not stupid but sometimes he does stupid things. Remember what happened the first attempt of your meme game.

[Kitsune]

I also read Tom. Not just because of the "lazy" reasons Xorces cites, although lazy and time-poor often look close to one another.

I'm reluctant to sheep onto Yavu and I'm partly convinced by recent posts defending rdr (and I don't like his wagon).

Moving vote to:

##vote Tom Bombadil

I want to mark this post for later. Kitsune JUST had voted for rivera and all of the sudden is "convinced" by the absolutely shitty defense I made on rivera? AND YOU DON'T LIKE HIS WAGON?

Then why did you vote for him LITERALLY less than an hour ago?

REMEMBER THIS POST.

I said at the time I didn't like his wagon, but I felt it was a valid target.

And no, I don't think it was wholly your defense that swayed me.

Look at my reads list, I have both Rdr and Tom on it. If Tom is becoming a better target, I'm much happier voting for him.

[Chaqa]

I also read Tom. Not just because of the "lazy" reasons Xorces cites, although lazy and time-poor often look close to one another.

I'm reluctant to sheep onto Yavu and I'm partly convinced by recent posts defending rdr (and I don't like his wagon).

Moving vote to:

##vote Tom Bombadil

I want to mark this post for later. Kitsune JUST had voted for rivera and all of the sudden is "convinced" by the absolutely shitty defense I made on rivera? AND YOU DON'T LIKE HIS WAGON?

Then why did you vote for him LITERALLY less than an hour ago?

REMEMBER THIS POST.

I said at the time I didn't like his wagon, but I felt it was a valid target.

And no, I don't think it was wholly your defense that swayed me.

Look at my reads list, I have both Rdr and Tom on it. If Tom is becoming a better target, I'm much happier voting for him.

Voting for a wagon you admittedly don't like is scummy.

[bozotheclown]

I am OK with lynching Tom, I think it answers some questions about Vapor from D1.

##VOTE Tom Bombadil