MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[BunnyGo]

In all this, I assume nobody on the Moriarty team would be bussing Moriarty before they even had a chance to confer in chat.

Ok, so Demon gets the credit for first person to say that Bob may be scummy:

<snip>
I find myself wary of rdr (Although I seem to always read him scum) over the mislabeling of the SK's wincon. I also don't like what I've seen of Bob so far. It's a shotgun of content spread with no intent or effect (And there were a lot of attempts in those few posts to be substantial)

Then this post came out of nowhere (also page 7). I couldn't figure out why Damo made it. But it does not look good.

##vote Flavius

(just having a giraffe really but then again why not).

I assume Bob is a Male vt

It's all well and dandy to have a joke post then, but why sneak in a serious comment about Bob at the end of it? Right after Demon said the above?

I bit later Vapor is the next to say something about Bob. Was this OMGUSing? Who knows. But it again solidifies that Vapor (now Tom) is not likely to be on the Moriarty team.

Let's visit peterbot and choose a suspect..

##VOTE Bob

I've disliked everything he's posted so far

Dargo gets on the Bob wagon (and gets a cookie from me for it)

Probably won't be on today.
ItsHosuke came on with adequate attention, so I'll remove my vote.
We do need to lynch someone today, a no-lynch is, as usual, less than stellar.
No, statistically we won't hit scum today.
But the value is not jUST hitting scum. But towards end of game every vote or not vote is valuable data. Missing out this time because we might hit an inno is short term thinking.
We have four groups looking to kill someone. Once who those four groups actually are becomes known, we can draw connections that just might help, yes?
Also... in a strange way, maybe every lynch reduces Jack's chances. We might get lucky and lynch a woman.

This D1 is even more difficult than most D1s. Too many hunters. And too many hiders.
I don't have any clear scumreads. Most of my gut scum reads at this point are from lack of posting. Which probably isn't really NAI. (although every scum team seems to have a lurker... so does every town team.)

So this morning I am voting for a gut reaction. Honestly, that's what most of you are doing, too. Y'all just articulate your gut reactions more articulately.

Bob seems nervous to me.

VOTE ##BOBMCBOB

<snip>
Bob seems nervous to me.

VOTE ##BOBMCBOB

Here’s another cookie dargo. You are my favorite town read right now. Fighting for first post. Articulating my thoughts. Not saying useless garbage to make it seem like you have something to say. You’re the best! Enough I’m going to sheep you because juuuuust maybe foxy (Kitsune) is actually busy.

##VOTE BOBM

Surprisingly Hosuke shows up for a moment, just to randomly jump on the Bob wagon:

##Vote BobMcBob

I don't really have a good feeling on his posts so far and his wagon looks good, and since Temy's advocating for no lynch it's best for me to stay away from that.

While Xorxes says it's too early to not have a counter wagon...hmmm...

OK, so Bunny has given us something. I'm not unhappy with the Bob wagon, but I think we need more competition.

##VOTE Comp I guess for now.

Rdrivera says a few people (including Bob) are scummish, but that the others need pressure...ok?

<snip>
I don't like the Bob "claim" thing and justification, looks a lot like Ezio last game. I still don't like Damo, it's a bit of OMGUS but I have a feeling I might've hit something to get him to be so defensive to the point of voting me. I have also a weird feeling about Temasek too, but it's about tone.

As Bob is already receiving pressure ##vote Damo

And Commander does the same:

Feels like a toss up right now between No Lynch and Bob. Anything is better than No Lynch, but I still feel voting out an absentee is guaranteed win-win. I agree that No Lynch is a bit better in this setup compared to others, but it's still not ideal. I'm keeping my vote on Computer_Genius for now, but if we absolutely need another vote to make something happen, I'll join the bandwagon before EOD.

And lookie here: I get to start my Bionic ISO early. This here is the scummiest scum scum post of the part:

I'm trying to find a place for my vote. I can't see jumping on the Bob wagon because he sucks at telling jokes and nobody likes his rhyme scheme. I think I will give my vote to the absent guy that I have no history with until I get further information from him. This may seem like the lazy way but even if ComputerG is town, he is not helping us solve the game.

##vote Computer

And here's Chaqa the scum teammate to Bob trying to return the compliment:

Ah I missed ND. I love the attacks on my intelligence - you know, he didn’t use to do those before I stopped agreeing with him on political matters. Glad to see you’re still a toxic and terrible person buddy <3

I think a no lynch is preferable to a bad lynch. Bob is a bad lynch. I’m thinking Dargo is almost certainly scum and Bunny seems off. No strong feel on the others on the Bob wagon yet.

Tem and xorxes seems town. Rivera seems town. Frost wind and EMC are town for now.

I will vote for no lynch, or Dargo, today.

And here's Damo again:

The Bob wagon is bad.

He's probably town and probably male.

And Chaq compliment's Damo...

The Bob wagon is bad.

He's probably town and probably male.

I want to give towncred to Damo for this. The fact he recognizes the Bob wagon is bad is minor, but pointing out the male/female thing is a big town+ for me, it's something to consider that I don't think scum would necessarily be worried about so early.

Then things got Chaotic and EOD...others can analyze that.

[ND]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

Yeah...should we end the ruse and let them know you aren’t Jekyll, that I am and all 3 NKs (and my heal) targeted you last night?

Yeah dude, good play. Ruse is over.

[BunnyGo]

“ (I saw a post where I said Kitsune, Bionic, and Xorxes were my 3 scummiest--the ISO on Kit is too small, and Xorxes was just handled by EMC, but Bionic has slipped through the cracks)”

...

Are you declaring scumreads and then coming up with reasons to justify those reads after the fact?? And then admitting it?

No...I'm saying I forgot to go back and do a deeper dive a day later. I had scum reads day 1. But it's day 1...

I intend to analyze stuff, and did Kit and Xor, but forgot Bio

[BunnyGo]

The tl;dr on the Bob analysis:

Assuming people are just trying to be simple and not deceitful:

Damo, Chaq, and Bionic are the most pro-Bob, and had most support *from* Bob.

[BunnyGo]

@Tom: Do you not have "gut" feelings about players, but then need to do deep dives later to analyze if your gut has any meat to it?

[BunnyGo]

OK...I'm off for a bit. If somebody else (Einstein? Tom? KITSUNE?!?!?!?!) wants to do a dive on Bionic. Something smells off there and I'd like some more in depth analysis soon.

[bozotheclown]

Good morning, dear players of webdiplomacy.
After some unfortunate events, I know that I disappeared for some time.


Now, I don't see the role PM for VT role in the starting post.

If someone tell me what information we have so far it would be great and a quick summary of the past phases would make me thankful.

Welcome back yavuzovic.

Why did you point out that the VT role PM is not in the starting post?

[yavuzovic]

Dr. Chakyll’s Log: 23rd of November, 1888
<snip>

TL:DR I’m Dr. Jekyll

Huge town, sorry, Jekyll points for this. Sure, a scum could make this play as well, but with the talk of lynching Hyde going around, I wouldn't risk it. What we should do with this information I don't know, but I'm pretty certain Chaqa is legit here.

This could easily be scum covering for scum teammate.

Even if I was accused by my scummates for bussing too hard once, I believe accusing early is a better strategy for scums. I understand that it looks fishy for being too optimistic about Chaqa but I don't think a scum would openly cover his teammate. Though, everyone plays differently and I don't know Bob well, but I don't know, maybe intentionally wrote this to derail us. I have to check when this post was written and I don't know what was the context because I'm sub.

[yavuzovic]

Good morning, dear players of webdiplomacy.
After some unfortunate events, I know that I disappeared for some time.


Now, I don't see the role PM for VT role in the starting post.

If someone tell me what information we have so far it would be great and a quick summary of the past phases would make me thankful.

Welcome back yavuzovic.

Why did you point out that the VT role PM is not in the starting post?

I was wondering how many female characters are there in the game. I knew there was female Londoners so I wanted to see how it's explained in VT PM.

And no.. I wasn't seeking for targets. I was just trying to understand the setup that I just started.

[BunnyGo]

Huge town, sorry, Jekyll points for this. Sure, a scum could make this play as well, but with the talk of lynching Hyde going around, I wouldn't risk it. What we should do with this information I don't know, but I'm pretty certain Chaqa is legit here.

This could easily be scum covering for scum teammate.

Even if I was accused by my scummates for bussing too hard once, I believe accusing early is a better strategy for scums. I understand that it looks fishy for being too optimistic about Chaqa but I don't think a scum would openly cover his teammate. Though, everyone plays differently and I don't know Bob well, but I don't know, maybe intentionally wrote this to derail us. I have to check when this post was written and I don't know what was the context because I'm sub.

AFAIK this is Bob's second game. Last game he was a chameleon and got bussed hard by me for a minor slip that I probably pushed too hard.

[Kitsune]

The way you can help is by posting your thoughts as the come. Silent people are hard to sort, and this good for scum. Even if your ideas are wrong (most of ours end up being wrong if you go back and look), sharing your thoughts helps town look into your mindset which is how we sort you into scum and town.

You're right, and I'm sorry.

It really hasn't been a conscious decision to be as quiet as I've been, just been very busy.

I'll try to do better after Dawn, if I can do.

[Kitsune]

This could easily be scum covering for scum teammate.

Even if I was accused by my scummates for bussing too hard once, I believe accusing early is a better strategy for scums. I understand that it looks fishy for being too optimistic about Chaqa but I don't think a scum would openly cover his teammate. Though, everyone plays differently and I don't know Bob well, but I don't know, maybe intentionally wrote this to derail us. I have to check when this post was written and I don't know what was the context because I'm sub.

AFAIK this is Bob's second game. Last game he was a chameleon and got bussed hard by me for a minor slip that I probably pushed too hard.

That was Bionic Mole.

I mean, you may have bussed Bob hard (unsure), but BM was the Chameleon who got lynched still in Townphase.

[BunnyGo]

Even if I was accused by my scummates for bussing too hard once, I believe accusing early is a better strategy for scums. I understand that it looks fishy for being too optimistic about Chaqa but I don't think a scum would openly cover his teammate. Though, everyone plays differently and I don't know Bob well, but I don't know, maybe intentionally wrote this to derail us. I have to check when this post was written and I don't know what was the context because I'm sub.

AFAIK this is Bob's second game. Last game he was a chameleon and got bussed hard by me for a minor slip that I probably pushed too hard.

That was Bionic Mole.

I mean, you may have bussed Bob hard (unsure), but BM was the Chameleon who got lynched still in Townphase.

Ooops. Thanks for catching this (and welcome back). There are too many f*&#ing B names in this group.

[BunnyGo]

So @Kit have you been reading along? Are you caught up?

Quick: Top three scum and top three town. Don't think, just answer!

[BunnyGo]

So @Kit have you been reading along? Are you caught up?

Quick: Top three scum and top three town. Don't think, just answer!

I see you still browsing! Don't wait until dawn; give us some thoughts, Vixen!

[bozotheclown]

Some collected thoughts:

- Vecna seems alright, but I still don't understand why he diregarded Chaqa's claim before ND counterclaimed. If Chaqa flips scum, Vecna is a possible teammate.

-Tom seems alright, but there's still the question of how Vapor was aware that Jack's knife was a thing when he had not read Jack's PM. The only other place that Jack's knife is mentioned besides Jack's role PM is in the Grave Robber's role PM. If we can't find the Grave Robber, Tom may be it.

- Chaqa's claim makes no sense as any alignment. As a reaction test it was pretty useless as far as I can tell, I didn't really get anything from the reactions, except perhaps Vecna wanting to lynch him in spite of the claim, which there was not much reason to doubt before the cc. Normally I would say probably VT, but then why make us waste half a day making people choose between two town, what was the purpose of that?

- emc usually has some insightful observations among the jokes and banter. I haven't seen them yet, but maybe it's just because finding scum when everyone is truly scumhunting is harder. I'm happy to give him more time.

- Bunny is doing good after the unexpected silent start. Nothing scummy from him since he started participating.

- Flav seems town, as many people have already pointed out. If anyone remembers which game it was that he was scum please point me to it. I think it was his first and I was scum with him, but I may be wrong. My problem is that the way I remember it, when he was scum he was just as talkative and dead horse beating as here. Just a warning not to obvtown him for that which I understand why many want to do.

- Kitsune, where art thou? I liked her intervention regarding Chaqa's claim of being saved, but that's about all she has done all game. We need more.

- dargo is another ghost. He usually has a noticeable thread presence. This time I don't remember anything from him.

- bozo gets a free pass from me for a while.

- rivera seems ok, but I think also doing less than usual. I'm happy to give him more time.

- I don't find anything damning about damo, except for this little comment he made to Tom which made me lift an eyebrow: "Btw that 'Trust me' when voting for you was drinkspeak." The reason is that he didn't say 'trust me', and also that it was unnecessary to apologize for what he did say.

- yavu made an interesting comment about the VT role(s) not being included in the list of role PMs. Could be significant. Hopefully we finally get to find out something about this slot.

- ND is Jekyll although it would be hilarious if he wasn't.

- Hosuke. Hosuke, Hosuke, Hosuke. Hm. Yeah, ok.

- Temasek: knows Hosuke IRL. Talks mainly about Hosuke.

- purple cow: good EOD1 vote. I don't remember anything else.

- Kalel: keeps a spreadsheet. I don't remember anything else.

- CmdrLikely: I don't remember anything.

- BionicMole: I don't remember anything.

- DemonRHK: Seemed exasperated about people wanting to lynch one of Chaqa or ND before Chaqa's recanting. That was fine at first, but he kept it up even when it became obvious that Chaqa was lying, which was weird. That's all I remember from him.

I think that's everyone. If I missed someone, I probably don't remember anything about them.

I questioned Vecna's vote for Chaqa at the beginning of D2 because if he was voting for Chaqa because he agreed it was a good idea to get rid of Jekyll, that should wait until D3, and if he was voting for him because he did not believe he was Jekyll, that should wait until Chaqa had a counterclaim. He later responded (although not to me) with reasons he was scum reading Chaqa, without really acknowledging Chaqa's Jekyll claim.

That we M45 where you were scum with Flavius, also with me and yavuzovic.

[bozotheclown]

Good morning, dear players of webdiplomacy.
After some unfortunate events, I know that I disappeared for some time.


Now, I don't see the role PM for VT role in the starting post.

If someone tell me what information we have so far it would be great and a quick summary of the past phases would make me thankful.

Welcome back yavuzovic.

Why did you point out that the VT role PM is not in the starting post?

I was wondering how many female characters are there in the game. I knew there was female Londoners so I wanted to see how it's explained in VT PM.

And no.. I wasn't seeking for targets. I was just trying to understand the setup that I just started.

There was a second game setup post that had some updates, including the information you were looking for:

Roles:

TOWN:

1 DETECTIVE
1 DOCTOR
1 TRAVELLER (female)
1 GAMBLER (female)
1 STREET URCHIN
1 JEKYLL & HYDE (Day Doctor and sometime Third Party)
10 VTs (5 male and 5 female)

MAFIA TEAM 1 - MORIARTY & CO:

1 EVIL GENIUS (Anti-Detective)
1 STRONGMAN
1 GOON (female)

MAFIA TEAM 2 - BURKE & HARE:

1 GRAVE ROBBER
1 ROLEBLOCKER
1 GOON (female)

1 JACK THE RIPPER (3rd Party special SK)

[Chaqa]

Anyone who has played with me when I'm scum knows I tend to either avoid or bus my teammates, not buddy them. (@Bunny)

[yavuzovic]

Thank you bozo, but

ISN'T THAT TOO EASY FOR JACK THE RIPPER?
There are more female characters than I expected and only 3 is enough?

[bozotheclown]

Some random thoughts;

Im not sure whether to be happy with Xorxes' readslist or to be suspicious that he's copying general sentiment. There really are no "stand-out hot-takes" that Xorxes is normally prone to do as town. It feels like he's more or less, really at the same place as me......which begs the question; Are you copying me, bro?

Not even close to the truth. Many of my observations are original with me and not shered at least out loud by anyone. e.g. Tom (nobody but me cares about Vapor's knife), bozo (nobody else has expressed an opinion on him), damo (I seem to be the only one townreading him), you (nobody except maybe bozo cares that you voted Chaqa while his claim was still unchallenged), Hosuke (something, something), yavu (nobody else seems to care about what he said of VT PM), Bunny (nobody else seems to have noticed his scumslip/strange comment about ND) and so on.

The one thing I just cannot fathom from that list; Me on a team with Chaqa?

Stranger things have happened. It's the best explanation I could come up with for your vote.

After semi death-tunneling him? Why would I vote him if I knew he was likely gonna be cc'd? The truth of the matter, which I probably shouldnt even admit, was that I totally forgot he had made that claim when I voted him out of the gates on D2.

That would have been more believable if you had said it the first time I asked, but ok.

His dance around the Bob wagon was extremely suspicious, which is why I wanted him dead. Also, this sentiment is from later on - Chaqa as town is generally a lot more care-nothing-in-your-face, here he seems to have this whole plan, and path-dependant shit going on. Im suspicious. Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I really dont like his shit.

Me neither.

EMC seems very happy to be buddy-buddy with me. In previous games when I was being less serious, he was showing a modicum of suspicion. Here there is very little of that. He just seems to be happy in this state of where he likes me and I like him. Which is all well and good. But it still leaves a bit of a sour taste. Maybe someone with a spreadsheet should compare this behavior with past games to see if my suspicion has some merit.

There's something different about emc this game but I can't put my finger on what. He is sure moaning much more than usual.

Ok, that turned out to be too much of a wall. To my defense, alcohol mightve played a role in these random ramblings.

Jeez, the alcohol defense is becoming pandemic.

I thought you had a good point about Vapor's use of the word "knife", and it was one of the reasons I voted for Vapor instead of BobMcBob when I was trying to break the tie in the last minute of D1. The other primary reason was that I found it unlikely BobMcBob would draw attention to himself as scum with that "joke" gambler claim. Why did you choose to vote for BobMcBob over Vapor? As far as I can tell we both voted within seconds of each other thinking the vote was tied between Vapor and BobMcBob.

It would be interesting to analyze past games to determine if the "alcohol defense" correlates to scum, but I do not know how to do that easily.