MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[KalelChase]

This is a very good observation. I have avoided calling anyone town or scum explicitly in this game, although I had not noticed it consciously until you pointed it out. The reason is that I have not found yet anything strong enough to call anyone scum, and the mechanics prevents calling anyone town with any certainty.

That's something I have been feeling this game, all my town reads seems weak and it's harder to find scummy behaviors or patterns.

Yes. I have very little idea how town can win in this set up.

We have to get rid of one team entirely. Which means finding Bob's partners should be a slightly higher priority than just general scum hunting.

[BionicMole]

Why should scum have had ND as their only identified PR though? And what did you mean by doctors being already busy with something else?

Not PR as the 2nd class. I figured they had no PRs, but ND had been saying he knew everything and as awesome. But he didn't explain, he just taunted.

As for the doctors: Chaq had publicly claimed he was saving himself. Which is a point against Chaq in my book as it's not advancing town.

But post N1 he has justified his taunting. It was a shot-gun all over everyone.

I'd say that Chaq's fake claim did set up the environment for ND to pull of his gambit. Not that I think they're coordinating at that level, just that ND saw the impact and took advantage of it.

Are you saying that you don't believe ND's claim of Jekyll?

[KalelChase]

Not PR as the 2nd class. I figured they had no PRs, but ND had been saying he knew everything and as awesome. But he didn't explain, he just taunted.

As for the doctors: Chaq had publicly claimed he was saving himself. Which is a point against Chaq in my book as it's not advancing town.

But post N1 he has justified his taunting. It was a shot-gun all over everyone.

I'd say that Chaq's fake claim did set up the environment for ND to pull of his gambit. Not that I think they're coordinating at that level, just that ND saw the impact and took advantage of it.

Are you saying that you don't believe ND's claim of Jekyll?

It does not. My comment is conjecture (and a bit of a complement). Since he's still here ND can speak for himself about how much he thinks Chaq's fake-claim helped him.

[BunnyGo]

That's something I have been feeling this game, all my town reads seems weak and it's harder to find scummy behaviors or patterns.

Yes. I have very little idea how town can win in this set up.

We have to get rid of one team entirely. Which means finding Bob's partners should be a slightly higher priority than just general scum hunting.

If you think players are capable of differentiating not just non-town from town but Scum team A from Scum team B, then I need to stop playing now; I'll never even be that good.

[ND]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

[BunnyGo]

The way you can help is by posting your thoughts as the come. Silent people are hard to sort, and this good for scum. Even if your ideas are wrong (most of ours end up being wrong if you go back and look), sharing your thoughts helps town look into your mindset which is how we sort you into scum and town.

Thanks! I'm glad it's you Tom saying this, because you are pro-town in my eyes. It's easier to take advice mid-game when we are on the same team

Just do what I do commander: try and think a little. Read and reason. Then (most importantly) explain my intuitions and reasoning to myself and others by writing it. Do that, and you’re helping town.

[KalelChase]

Yes. I have very little idea how town can win in this set up.

We have to get rid of one team entirely. Which means finding Bob's partners should be a slightly higher priority than just general scum hunting.

If you think players are capable of differentiating not just non-town from town but Scum team A from Scum team B, then I need to stop playing now; I'll never even be that good.

You will eventually, not sure I will be, but I'm trying. The more experienced players seem to be cross-referencing meta-behavior and relationship analysis (i.e. busing, pocketing, whatever 'S/S' is, etc.), not just the 'seems scummy post' stuff that I'm doing. So that's why Bob's the key. Maybe I'll go ISO him again from the start of the game since things are slow (now that I finally have the time to be on).

[BunnyGo]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

Yeah...should we end the ruse and let them know you aren’t Jekyll, that I am and all 3 NKs (and my heal) targeted you last night?

[BionicMole]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

I just tried to think of a scenario where you are VT with what happened on N1 and this happened:

https://tenor.com/3p2e.gif

[e.m.c^42]

Not completely true. I called damo scum in one game because he used the same word to describe bozo that I had used as scum the game before (I don't remember the exact details anymore). It turned out I was right that damo was scum, but wrong about damo just copying me (at least that's what damo says, and there's no reason to doubt him) but a lot of people to this day keep repeating that I caught damo doing something he did not in fact do (ask damo, he doesn't like it when people bring that up).

Wasn't that last game when you were the SK?

Nah, 1007. I was scum with damo that game, he was town lol

Point, darlin' xorx :D
but that doesn't invalidate the fact that this is out of character - for, honestly, having more than one 'read' based upon this style of reasoning.

[BionicMole]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

Yeah...should we end the ruse and let them know you aren’t Jekyll, that I am and all 3 NKs (and my heal) targeted you last night?

That is one scenario I didn't think about...

[e.m.c^42]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

Yeah...should we end the ruse and let them know you aren’t Jekyll, that I am and all 3 NKs (and my heal) targeted you last night?

Lmfao

If this was true, this game would be the second great tombomb VT-as-PR deception :v

one can hope, one can hope

[Tom Bombadil]

emc - what do you think of Kalel?

[e.m.c^42]

It would be so funny if I was just a Vanilla Townie. Haha :D

Yeah...should we end the ruse and let them know you aren’t Jekyll, that I am and all 3 NKs (and my heal) targeted you last night?

Lmfao

If this was true, this game would be the second great tombomb VT-as-PR deception :v

one can hope, one can hope

For those who don't recall or know, this was also Dargo's epic shining moment, M42.

Tom claimed cop, with two guilty scans. Dargo was desperado who shot both of them, who indeed turned out to be scum. Tom was then nk'd and flipped VT lmao. Darg hipfired, and hit another scum. Repeat. (he's singlehandedly eliminated majority of scum team). Real cop came forwards with guilty scan, lynched second-to-last scum, remaining one surrendered.

That was a beautiful, beautiful game.

[e.m.c^42]

emc - what do you think of Kalel?

Let me finish up responding to xorx's stuff, then to Kalel. But tl;dr the gist of it is null somewhat leaning town, without actually going back to read posts. His activity and content level was poor, up until I and some others called him out for so, in which it then got somewhat better/close to precedent actions. May change after I go back and read.

[e.m.c^42]

And Vecna. He has a nice monologue lined up for him as well, lmao

[Chaqa]

Guys, I finally have emerged from my turkey coma.

I ate waaay too much.

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE

For the avoidance of doubt, you will only be sent a PM, when night ends, if something has happened to you, you have observed something, you were Roleblocked, you're dead, etc.

If I declare Day to be in progress, and you've not had a PM, that means there was nothing to report to you. I'm not going to name names, but I did once GM a game where a particular player (who is not in this game) would PM me after every night phase to check this.

[BunnyGo]

OK, went back and read up on Bob (our confirmed scum flip) to see what's what. Most of his posts were jokey, or trying to raise suspicions on Vapor (now Tom).

One post that jumped out what this one interacting with Chaq:

Dr. Chakyll’s Log: 23rd of November, 1888
<snip>

TL:DR I’m Dr. Jekyll

Huge town, sorry, Jekyll points for this. Sure, a scum could make this play as well, but with the talk of lynching Hyde going around, I wouldn't risk it. What we should do with this information I don't know, but I'm pretty certain Chaqa is legit here.

This could easily be scum covering for scum teammate.

He later had this comment:

On Chaqa's claim, hmm

Don't quite see any motivation for him to claim at this point, unless he's VT stirring shit, but give me time to think a bit more

regarding it as a null thing for now as currently thinking more

I have been thinking about this for the last 10 minutes or so and I felt pretty good about Chaq's explanation until I ran across bozo's post saying Jekyll should claim (#61). Then I started to think that maybe this could be a ploy between scum teammates to throw us off in the early stages.

This is a good point. I foolishly did not consider this. I think I may be doing that thing I did with Ezio where I was just like "this strategy is so outrageous it must be town!" And I was wrong last time, I may well be wrong again. Either way, I think Chaqa's decision wasn't great if he is Jekyll, and, as with Ezio, my confidence of it as a town play is decreasing somewhat.

OK...next to see who was talking to Bob--and see if anything jumps out there.

After that: The BIONIC WALL!!! (I saw a post where I said Kitsune, Bionic, and Xorxes were my 3 scummiest--the ISO on Kit is too small, and Xorxes was just handled by EMC, but Bionic has slipped through the cracks)

[Tom Bombadil]

“ (I saw a post where I said Kitsune, Bionic, and Xorxes were my 3 scummiest--the ISO on Kit is too small, and Xorxes was just handled by EMC, but Bionic has slipped through the cracks)”

...

Are you declaring scumreads and then coming up with reasons to justify those reads after the fact?? And then admitting it?