M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[Squigs44]

I can see nowhere in the thread (from my reading at least) where there was any confirmation that the driver had swapped the NK target. So how could mole safely assume the target was swapped?

How on earth could BM be able to safely assume this? I may be wrong, and there is the case of Flav's "scumslip" already, but this seems suspicious.

Probably for similar reasons everyone thought he was magnet until Kitsune said it was impossible? If Bionic had namedropped xorxes or something like that I'd find this push reasonable. And around the top of the same page the quote happened, Kitsune revealed that the driver was in play, which opened up a possibility to confirm what most everyone else believed.

This is honestly super confusing Im trying to read everything and Im just lost, I have no idea what is going on anymore

Would you say you are overload on information?

[FlaviusAetius]

@Prado, to prevent quoting that entire post

That sounds really logical, I nearly put forth yet another vote for the poor guy, but I think you're right. Bionic does feel really natural, a new with good progress.

No one's saying he can't be scum, just this scumslip shouldnt be used as evidence, look for something else folks, or you know ##vote ezio

[FlaviusAetius]

Probably for similar reasons everyone thought he was magnet until Kitsune said it was impossible? If Bionic had namedropped xorxes or something like that I'd find this push reasonable. And around the top of the same page the quote happened, Kitsune revealed that the driver was in play, which opened up a possibility to confirm what most everyone else believed.

This is honestly super confusing Im trying to read everything and Im just lost, I have no idea what is going on anymore

Would you say you are overload on information?

YES THIS WAS MY POINT!
See all this information, all these roles half the people here are going to be confused and say things that arent true and then people are going to think their mafia. The ISO's will be INSANELY long, and people can just skip over information.
This is just too much too fast no one can digest this kind of stuff, and your going to have more Bionic's and Flavius' 'scumslips'

[FlaviusAetius]

@Prado, you really don't think someone you described as "trying to learn" and having some progression, why wasn't he trying to learn at all in the night?

A noob town would be on here asking lots of questions, having to be told to shut up and not help scum when it's night, etc. etc. For references see: BunnyGo, Kalel, and others.

A noob scum wouldn't understand that. They're too busy learning in scumchat.

The statement this is NAI is shocking as it's literally one of the most commonly used AI errors noob scum do until they're coached.

When I was 'noobtown' (I played ftf, but this is a lot more intense) I didnt ask a single question ever, overall its just embarasing and you feel like your just going to ask something wrong. Instead I just followed person to person and commented on everything

[FlaviusAetius]

Also @Prado how would you rate Bionic's grammar?

I am capable of reading it. How would you rate it?

More specifically, I want you to consider if he says what he means in general. Because there's another scum slip I want to point out that hasn't been focused on yet but relies on how much you trust it to not be a typo.

o.o

[FlaviusAetius]

Oh BTW guys while I was writing my essay earlier this morning, I got distracted and looked back at previous mafia games, Im pretty sure I broke the record on number of posts on Day 1 in webdiplomacy mafia, I see this as a success

[TrPrado]

Went back for a little reread and rivera looks a lot better today, but bozo seems very faux helpful which is the worst kind of helpful

##VOTE BOZOTHECLOWN

[Squigs44]

This is honestly super confusing Im trying to read everything and Im just lost, I have no idea what is going on anymore

Would you say you are overload on information?

YES THIS WAS MY POINT!
See all this information, all these roles half the people here are going to be confused and say things that arent true and then people are going to think their mafia. The ISO's will be INSANELY long, and people can just skip over information.
This is just too much too fast no one can digest this kind of stuff, and your going to have more Bionic's and Flavius' 'scumslips'

Lol. As much crap as I give you Flav, I do actually enjoy playing with you and joking around with you most of the time. Keep being you Flav, and if you have anything you need cleared up... well you can ask Xorxes
or me, I guess I can help too

[TrPrado]

Oh BTW guys while I was writing my essay earlier this morning, I got distracted and looked back at previous mafia games, Im pretty sure I broke the record on number of posts on Day 1 in webdiplomacy mafia, I see this as a success

Nope

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/game_st ... =day&num=1

[KalelChase]

Holly mo-lie, what a night.

My spreadsheet is blowing up.

More in the morning with a likely change of vote.

[BionicMole]

Mostly on point. I only found one time where he said something where a letter missing severely changes the meaning of his message. It's the lesser read first part of the "scum slip" post. See if you can spot it.

I'll give you a hint. In the xorxes quote he uses, the letter is there, but he removes it at every chance. And it really matters.

It reads just fine if you're not on a witch hunt.
The second paragraph is the singular form of the word person and needs no "s" at the end.
The first paragraph, the one you are talking about, is written as a hypothetical situation. Read it in that tone and you get the intended meaning.

I'm not going to pretend that the second paragraph doesn't look suspicious, and I can't really explain why I worded it that way. I was reading messages for hours today and trying to process the info dished out from the Interceptor and it was just the way it seemed to happen with all the press that went through my head.

[Squigs44]

Agreed on this... you pushed my buttons and I reacted. My frustration with you was a bit higher during this exchange due to my attempts to coordinate/communicate. Que será, será
Moved my vote to be in align with mon capitan... starting fresh with you with a reset of my emotional state.

You voting me to be in align with anyone is a huge scumtell to me.

It's also inconsistent with my plan to go out on my own this time instead of jumping on wagons. However, it was Flav's request, who is the only one I trust. He gave these options; xorxes, Ezio, bozo and rdrivera

In my spreadsheet (which is not a full ISO);
I've got two sections... my weights, and the crowd claims.
You're the only one of these four that are negative in both, although Ezio has a more negative score in the crowd score, when I combine the weights you pull out 'ahead' on scum.

I need to do a complete ISO for D2, which I'll try and get done tomorrow, but I intend to limit my choices to the four listed.

Just reread some of Kalel and there are some questionable things. His switch from bunny to rdr and subsequent explanation is awful. He's tieing himself down to sheeping Flav onto one of the 4 Flav listed, and also citing his "spreadsheet" as picking rdr as his top scum. I believe it was damo who did this as scum one of his early games (this was like over a year ago so I could be dead wrong here).
Has Kalel played before and has he done the spreadsheet thing before?

[Squigs44]

Holly mo-lie, what a night.

My spreadsheet is blowing up.

More in the morning with a likely change of vote.

Oh and there he is. Cant wait to see what your spreadsheet has for us

[BionicMole]

Also, what the fuck is going on with this top wagon? Most of the speculation of the day has revolved around this assumption that damo may not have been the intended NK target, but once we've confirmed that driver was in play and Bionic restates that sentiment it's suddenly a scumslip?

facts I dont even understand this bionic scumslip thing, but it doesnt really make any sense to me anyways, we should really stop relying on scumslips, I might be a tad bit biased, but they dont seem to have a good track record so far, especially in a game so complicated with so many roles, give people the benefit of the doubt

When I get caught up with this pile of barnacles I will go back and see who was pounding your FALSE wagon in D1 Flav. Might be some actual information in there.

[Squigs44]

Quick all in one place reads list before I go to bed:

Town: Squigs44, Kitsune, FlaviusAetius, dargorygel
Likely town: bozotheclown, xorxes (smallish chance of 3p)
Townlean: BunnyGo, Ezio, rdrivera2005, TrPrado, Vaporwave
Need more info: RagingIke297
Suspicious: BobMcBob, worcej, Vecna (where is he?)
Top scummies: BionicMole, Jamiet99uk, KalelChase, Temasek22

[TrPrado]

Last thing before bad:

I know there are people skeptical of bozo, but I mean come on guys this one seems pretty crystal clear to me.

Starting D1 we see an almost laser focus on trying to convince people to mass claim, but breaks that focus for a

##Vote bo_sox

Thanks for making this game so bloody easy.

##VOTE damo

I like damo's vote better.

##VOTE bo_sox

His first post that isn't related to mass claim, but he doesn't diversify his topics here. We get no followup to this post. We get no explanation for his reasons. He doesn't back up damo.

The next time he says anything even somewhat unrelated to his idea of getting people to claim is almost 20 posts later

In M49 (yes I know. Shush, it's all I have to go on) I found that bozo was pushing a plan I didn't entirely agree with and seemed to push it despite attempts to distract him into doing something else. As a result and developing my town hunting techniques I voted to lynch him on Day 1 and he flipped town.

Sorry Kitsune, I do not see how this could be anything except a scum slip, because you were mafia in M49, and therefore knew I was town.

##VOTE Kitsune

Honestly what's with this game and accusations of scum slips? This is ridiculous. He also cuts out part of the quote:

This is consistent with his meta here. It's a flawed plan, but I believe it's a genuine one and I don't have a better alternative yet. In any case, I do believe he's sincere and I feel this gets us more information than we lose - both in Day 1 and giving us information to review later.

The context here is self-exonerating but he kept pushing the first half of the quote as a scum slip or otherwise scum indicative. Even without the context I've added, the point is her saying she had analyzed him and felt she had a grasp on his behavior.

He also hops on the Flav scum slip and says the defense is unconvincing. Then after Flav says he'd rather not claim bozo pushes him into a claim:

I could go with Kitsune or Flavius, and it concerns me they are both voting for Ezio, so I am changing my vote to Flavius to break the tie with Ezio.

##VOTE FlaviusAetius

You have made Flav the lead wagon, Bozo.

He is offering to claim.

Earlier, you strongly advocated the lead wagon should claim.

Do you now wish Flav to claim?

Yes, I would prefer to see him claim now instead of 5 minutes before EOD.

if there's anything i can do to prove im not mafia i'll do it right now i guess ill claim if thats what will avoid wasting a lynch

It is going to depend on the role you claim whether it will make a difference in my vote.

After D1 he also made some posts where it seemed like he wanted an excuse to scum read me:

The Flavius VENDETTA BEGINS

Yeah BOZO

I think I am going to have to look up whether tunneling is town or scum indicative for you.

I think I'll be taking a closer look at the people who claimed Flavius "scumslipped" tonight. It was the point where I think a lot went wrong, and something about the whole situation just felt odd.

The inciting incident:

Im not saying it wasnt a reaction test, but look at the differences between bo's and ezio's reaction tests. One kept the fueling of the flames, and found a scum, not only that he didnt do literally the only reaction test that a scum must say to enact their ability.
Ezio said the forbidden words, dropped off the face of earth, caused huge disruption, and now people are playing with nonsense to prove his innocence

I hadn't looked up Flav's reads so I naturally wanted clarity, so I did what a great number of people should've done and asked questions. It felt like a throwaway comment about Ezio not posting a full analysis of the responses he read, and I figured it might be helpful to also get an idea of Flav's thoughts on other things that have happened in the game.

Yet a decent handful of people took that comment in a WHOLE other direction. Those people were:
Jamie, worcej, Ezio, Kalel, bozotheclown
rdrivera (note bold)

The one who really started taking it down the dark path was Jamie. Page 43 he sees the post and believes it to be a scum slip based on the premise that Flavius "knows" damo is scum.
Then follow worcej, Ezio, and Kalel onto the wagon, with others considering it but not yet placing votes.
The other two on my list stand out for other reasons. They both talk about the wagon and interact with it for a little while, bozo pressuring him until he says he can't claim his role, and eventually pushing Flav to claim bulletproof, which later spiraled into everyone voting for Flav.

And then rivera, who stands out the most to me as someone who started talking about it EARLY but not getting on the wagon until everybody decided to lynch Flav as a role confirm. When I say he started early, I mean his post saying he thought it was convincing as a scumslip was when the wagon was at a grand total of 2 votes. The degree to which he attempted to be a voice on the wagon is unclear, but he most certainly seemed to want to stoke the fire, but he only actually joined into the fray when it became clear that there was no alternative to the lynch.

This REEKS of scumplay. To a degree far beyond the other people on the list. Looking back at his other posts there's absolutely nothing to make up for it. Hedging, weird anger at people for answering questions not necessarily directed at them, inessential and unproductive questions, little to no actual deduction. I just can't envision any of this being town.

I assume there will be one or two other scum on this wagon, so this is a good place to focus at least SOME thought.

Of course the mafia knew it was not a scum slip, so they could have been quick to defend Flavius and believe his claim, knowing they would be proven "correct" at the attempt to lynch Flavius.

And then we come to today where he has not been as involved. No longer making posts counting who is for or against the idea of the lead wagon claiming their role, and no longer putting a crazy amount of effort into trying to convince people of that, the fluff of his posts is now gone. His posts for today have this aura of trying to seem like he's being helpful but not actually being so.

Oh bozo, you clever rascal you!

After you pushed dear Flav to claim and continued in your persistence in wanting to 'test' his bulletproof ability, now you're deflecting

'scum is in those that defended Flav'

Scum can be 1 defender but also another scum could have also voted Flav for his 'supposed' scumslip

Mafia knew Flav being lynched would have distracted town from thinking of voting someone else (perhaps a mafia member) thus I think mafia had many reasons to vote for Flav and to push for him to show us his ability

I agree the mafia are likely spread out in this way.

2-2-1

What does this mean?

It appears Vecna was answering my question from the previous post:

If town was leading a lynch on Flavius, what to you do as scum, join in, defend him, or stay away?

So he is saying there were 2 mafia who joining in on the Flavius lynch (Jamie, worcej, Ezio, Kalel, bozo, dargorygel, BionicMole, rdrivera, BobMcBob, Squigs, Temasek), 2 mafia who defended Flavius (Vaporwave, TrPrado, Kitsune), and 1 mafia who stayed away (xorxes, Vecna, BunnyGo, yuuki/RagingIke).

Squigs and Temasek did bail on the Flavius lynch, and BobMcBob tried to, so they may need there own category. Also, BunnyGo came online at EOD but did not take a position on the Flavius lynch, so I think he need his own category also:

supported Flavius lynch: Jamie, worcej, Ezio, Kalel, bozo, dargorygel, BionicMole, rdrivera

opposed Flavius lynch: Vaporwave, TrPrado, Kitsune

supported Flavius lynch at some point, ended up not voting for him (or tried to): Squigs, Temasek, BobMcBob

neutral on Flavius lynch: BunnyGo

not around for Flavius lynch: xorxes, Vecna, yuuki/RagingIke)

Does anyone object to the category I have placed them?

If there is an anti-encryptor, and they shut down mafia chat N1, I do not think they could have coordinated the use of the janitor and the role thief, although I am not sure who would have decided on the night kill.

Unless, like stated earlier Damo was the Magnet and activated.

Yes, damo as magnet does make sense. It would also explain why damo was not very active D1, if he was planning on drawing the NK to himself with the doctor gone.

quote=bozotheclown post_id=111305 time=1572660094 user_id=222]

It worked so well last game janitoring the first night.

Aye... But I am asking why damo? Why not a more obvious choice?

That is why damo as magnet makes sense.
[/quote]

Damo was not the magnet.

I am not prepared to claim yet, but I am either aware of at least one power that successfully targeted another player last night or aware of the identity of the Magnet.

I do not think it is important right now to know whether damo was the magnet. We know the janitor activated to clean up the mafia night kill, so if damo was not the magnet, we know he was the mafia NK target or was driven with the mafia NK target. Also, it is possible the role thief has his power for N2.

Bold in the last quote I added myself because I let out a heavy sigh reading it and I felt everyone else would as well.


Anyway, this is the right choice and I advocate this to everyone else here.

[bozotheclown]

With Kitsune confirming damo was town, we are down to 11 town vs. 8 non-town.

Kitsune, Flavius, and dargorygel are town. xorxes is not mafia. rdrivera, Kalel, and BobMcBob all were quick to claim that they had town roles that Kitsune confirmed. I am not sure how good of an idea that was, but I doubt any of the non-town would do that as quickly as they did, so I am going to assume for now that they are town.

Since I am also town, that only leaves 4 town spots for 12 players. So there is a 2 in 3 chance that any of BionicMole, BunnyGo, Ezio, Jamie, Squigs, Temasek, TrPrado, Vaporwave, Vecna, worcej, and Ike are non-town, and a 3 in 7 chance that xorxes is a third party.

I have no idea who the last 4 town are.

[BionicMole]

Bionic, a few questions (Prado dont answer these)

Do you know why people think you may have scum slipped?
Were you making any assumptions in your "scum slip" post?
If so, why did you make those assumptions?

Of course I know why people see that as a scumslip. It looks like I had some sort of knowledge of what happened behind the scenes.
I was making assumptions based on what the Interceptor had found out and all the press I had read during the day. Maybe the fact that the Driver information came in late made me think it had to do with the actual NK.
.....
Matter of fact, I just went back and the message came in from Kit about the Driver (1856) . Xorxes received the same message about being "Driven" (1860). His tone seemed to change, sounding more serious than the rest of the conversation we were having most of the day. He definitely suggested the same thing I said in the message I quoted (1867) and he was the one with the actual knowledge.
I know I'm not scum so I actually feel good about the gut feeling I had.

And furthermore, If I was Scum and I had just ordered the hit on Xorxes and I knew it hit Demo instead, WTF would I say any of that? especially to X who would know?
I had a feeling I got from being in the conversation and classified it as an assumption.

[BionicMole]

TrPrado is right about me so it stands to reason he is right about ##vote bozotheclown

[BionicMole]

Bionic, a few questions (Prado dont answer these)

Do you know why people think you may have scum slipped?
Were you making any assumptions in your "scum slip" post?
If so, why did you make those assumptions?

Of course I know why people see that as a scumslip. It looks like I had some sort of knowledge of what happened behind the scenes.
I was making assumptions based on what the Interceptor had found out and all the press I had read during the day. Maybe the fact that the Driver information came in late made me think it had to do with the actual NK.
.....
Matter of fact, I just went back and the message came in from Kit about the Driver (1856) . Xorxes received the same message about being "Driven" (1860). His tone seemed to change, sounding more serious than the rest of the conversation we were having most of the day. He definitely suggested the same thing I said in the message I quoted (1867) and he was the one with the actual knowledge.
I know I'm not scum so I actually feel good about the gut feeling I had.

And furthermore, If I was Scum and I had just ordered the hit on Xorxes and I knew it hit Demo instead, WTF would I say any of that? especially to X who would know?
I had a feeling I got from being in the conversation and classified it as an assumption.

https://tenor.com/view/im-not-acriminal ... f-14758443