M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[FlaviusAetius]

Im not a noob...I play mafia in real life, I play it here I've played it several times, what have I ever done to be a 'noob'? Disagreeing with you? Haha.

@Kitsune The greatest trick in the book scum can do is saying I hate you your the worst, you do everything thats wrong, a bunch of scummy things too! BUT GUESS WHAT, I dont think your a scum, because I'm the best and I look above the fray, look how Town I am!!!

[FlaviusAetius]

Kalel is on my shit list for quoting the hammer phrase.

Shouldn't that be even more incriminating that Ezio's, since he would have done it somewhat on the sly rather than in the open? (But both notions are silly anyway.)

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/24/24aa16e21 ... 9575c2.jpg

Nope, we asked the GM and Chaqa said quoting doesnt count, unless you change the post, which is when I made the comment that you can just add a period to change it, but I dont think thats what happened

[xorxes]

I’m wondering if there is a compelling reason Jamie just used the G-word neatly and clearly spelled, after a post setting it up with similar spelling so it stood out less.

Possibly he was told that the scottishism earlier wouldn’t count?

I think we should all just stop talking about people using or not using that word until an actual hammer happens. It's trivially easy with the bot to find out who used it after a hammer has happened.

[BunnyGo]

Kalel is on my shit list for quoting the hammer phrase.

Bunny, you know the rules and so do I. Quoting it wouldn't trigger the end of the day.

It makes some sense, but I missed where this was clarified.

Moderator clarified that quotes don’t count unless they are modified. But it’s been suggested that even adding a period might count.

[KalelChase]

The down side to Ezio posting this was that we have to have a majority of our votes on him for 12 hours, which it not productive for town at all

Which is further evidence that he is scummy, or at least not good at the game.
From the general comments Ezio has a meta here, so clearly not a noobie. So either the meta is chaos, or there's some thought behind it... any thought behind it I can come up with is, at the least, anti-town. Which leaves my vote where it is.

[FlaviusAetius]

I’m wondering if there is a compelling reason Jamie just used the G-word neatly and clearly spelled, after a post setting it up with similar spelling so it stood out less.

Possibly he was told that the scottishism earlier wouldn’t count?

I think we should all just stop talking about people using or not using that word until an actual hammer happens. It's trivially easy with the bot to find out who used it after a hammer has happened.

Wrong, its actually very hard. Someone can say a word like this; You Pull!

And that would count as UP There's clever people here I'm sure there's some way to manipulate a sentence to get in those words all while hiding in plain sight, never take anything for granted

[BunnyGo]

I’m wondering if there is a compelling reason Jamie just used the G-word neatly and clearly spelled, after a post setting it up with similar spelling so it stood out less.

Possibly he was told that the scottishism earlier wouldn’t count?

I think we should all just stop talking about people using or not using that word until an actual hammer happens. It's trivially easy with the bot to find out who used it after a hammer has happened.

Unless they use steganography. But in that case it’s hard to see it in real time too.

[xorxes]

Ezio, would like to give you and opportunity to explain this. With no meta and only 4 posts to go on I'm open.

...but just in case I'm going to put it in... should have plenty of time to change it in the next 1 day and 4 hours.

##Vote Ezio

:facedesk: why did you quote it

Flavius has felt pretty towny for the most part but at this point this all feels like overreactions

I haven't decided yet, but I agree about the overreactions. He just strongly disagrees with almost anything anyone says, and at least to me he does not seem to really believe in any of the opinions he so forcefully tries to put forward.

[BionicMole]

it means I might be suspecting you, BionicMole

there are rumors that your hand was caught inside the cookie jar

You're a troll. I don't understand how you can "hear rumors".

...and caught doing what exactly?

Based on previous encounters, I don't think Vapourwave is a troll. It's just that English is his third language.

And he only speaks one language.

Haha Jamie, now that is funny!

But yea, go back and read Vapor's post. Always pointing fingers and "reading" people without actually saying anything else.

And this seems like one of those post to get a reaction out of me. Now I don't know all about the meta for this and meta for that, but that behavior seems kinda scumy to me.

So instead of randomly pointing fingers at people with no basis, can we get back to the lecture at hand and find the bad guys?

[KalelChase]

:facedesk: why did you quote it

Flavius has felt pretty towny for the most part but at this point this all feels like overreactions

I haven't decided yet, but I agree about the overreactions. He just strongly disagrees with almost anything anyone says, and at least to me he does not seem to really believe in any of the opinions he so forcefully tries to put forward.

So then is this part of his meta (and it's context?) or has he shifted?

[FlaviusAetius]

:facedesk: why did you quote it

Flavius has felt pretty towny for the most part but at this point this all feels like overreactions

I haven't decided yet, but I agree about the overreactions. He just strongly disagrees with almost anything anyone says, and at least to me he does not seem to really believe in any of the opinions he so forcefully tries to put forward.

If you dont attack everyone for everything they say your going to let things get by you, and then your going to create a narrative that isn't true, but you will believe is so true beyond any doubt and then guess what, mislynch, yipee!

Oh and what opinions do I have that I am 'forcefully putting forward' because thats just false

Also I dont get this overreaction thing I'm not overreacting, Im literally just giving my reactions

[xorxes]

For or against the 24 hour vote leader claiming, everyone please vote:

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera, Flavius, BionicMole, worcej
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

There is obvious little support for this idea and it is not going to happen, although 7 players chose not to vote.

I don't think it's a terrible idea, but I don't think it's worth the effort of trying to push it when it won't happen anyway.

The massclaim with the old Assassin role was definitely good for town and the right thing to do. The new role effectively counters the massclaim, and revealing individual roles I think is better left to the judgement of the role-holder rather than try to force it out of them.

[BobMcBob]

Finally, some peace and quiet. Is it just me, or is Flav giving off scum vibes here? Or is he just always this unhelpful?

... literally what? I didn’t do anything wrong here ok, I’m just giving my opinions and trying to find the scum, not sure what your doing buddy

It just seems like you're never really getting anywhwere. You're throwing out incoherent thoughts all the time and in general being very loud and less helpful. But, like I said, this may just be the way you play, I don't know. Which is why I would like someone (not Flav) to clear this up for me. Is flav usually this odd? He feels forced.

[bozotheclown]

Can you explain why its a scum slip to me?

For me it looks like Kitsune was using your performance of M49 to build a meta for you, and then use that meta to town read you this game. The comments about voting for you last game were not really related to the meta Kitsune was building, and were just kinda a side-note.

She implied she was scum reading me in M49 when she was mafia. That makes the whole thing seem fabricated, and only scum need to fabricate their posts.

So not really a scum slip in the sense that Kitsune said something that would only make sense from a scum perspective.
Also, Kitsune never said she scumread you? She said she disagreed with your plan and voted for you. Also, even if she did scumread you, that particular part of the story wasn't relevant to the meta she was building around you, and her argument still stands.
It does seem a bit weird to be bringing up her own behavior while establishing your meta, but I don't particularly see scum motivation behind that

Maybe scum slip is the wrong term, but I think it is scum indicative. The part about scum reading me in M49 is relevant in that she was mafia in M49, and could not be scum reading me.

[KalelChase]

For or against the 24 hour vote leader claiming, everyone please vote:

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera, Flavius, BionicMole, worcej
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

There is obvious little support for this idea and it is not going to happen, although 7 players chose not to vote.

I don't think it's a terrible idea, but I don't think it's worth the effort of trying to push it when it won't happen anyway.

The massclaim with the old Assassin role was definitely good for town and the right thing to do. The new role effectively counters the massclaim, and revealing individual roles I think is better left to the judgement of the role-holder rather than try to force it out of them.

I concur... Bozo take me off the massclaim vote. The new Assassin rules preclude this path, and in the interest of maximizing the signal to noise ratio in the thread can we at least shelve this until the Assassin is dead?

[KalelChase]

All I've done is commented on other peoples stuff, so I'll throw up some data to try and initiate a conversation. Take all the below with a grain of salt as I'm no wordsmith. I'll also attempt some intelligence behind it (I'm historically better at tracking the data than analyzing it).

Who shot Bo? So then who had the means, motivation and opportunity to shoot bo?
ROLES
Traitor - use any time (I stick to my 'guns' pun intended that it's in their best interest to fire early because the odds of hitting town is higher).
Item Smith - (can't hand out until night, off the hook)
JOAT - use it any time, candidate
Vig - use it any time, candidate (two bullets)
Assassin - (only at night, off the hook)
Observation - there are a total of 8 bullets, so 7 left.

We know Bo was the Doc. So who said what about him.

Bo started with the 'test'.
Damo jumped on it (#91), Bo reciprocated voting back.
Bozo jumped in with Damo (#98), and argued over M.Claim (or variant there of #114))
Kitsune jumped in on the M.Claim conversation (calmly and politely #142), triggering an actual calm justification from Bo (#159)
Temasek posts about TvS fight (#167) and conversation ensues. TrPrado engages on coin flipping and Bo blows them off (#171)
Flavius (not quite) defended Bo, with the statement "Im 100% against lynching people who dont talk in the first few days, lets focus on active people thank you very much" (#218)
--Post Shot--
Jamie show actual grief at the loss (#252), but then asks bunny if it was them (deflecting and scummy? #253) and retracts it (#255)
Worcej re-posts complement on Bo's strategy (#333)
Vapor comments not about Bo, but about suspicious that it was the Vig, and that they might know who they would be (#364)

So those with negative interactions with Bo may be too obvious, but Damo & Bozo are up front. Kit a bit, but their exchange was polite. TrPrado is an interesting suspect as they were blown off.
Temasek was analyzing their behavior publicly... perhaps there was a vig/JOAT rationale to end that conversation, but that would imply that Temasek was getting close to revealing something?

To highlight, I do have problems differentiating between Scum behavior and Newb/not smart behavior (like my repost of the phrase that must not be posted). So interpret the above as you need, just trying to contribute.

[Temasek22]

RE:Ezio and the entire hammerer shenanigans

Given that the hammerer can say the 5 magic words and end the day as long as it is in the 12 hour window of the final magic word. The plan to have everyone say it wouldn't work. And given Ezio has only 4 posts and suddenly said the magic phrase, there are a few possible possibilities, from most likely to least...

1) Ezio is clueless TOWN, and with minimal time scanning the thread he saw this such plan and jumped on it, not knowing it wouldn't work.

2) Ezio is a less important [color=#FFCCCBMAFIA][/color] role, possibly the traitor who has fired his shot and is entirely clueless about his team, he tries to distract attention from the actual hammerer who might be completing their phrase.

3) Ezio is a THIRD PARTY who wants to stir up the pot. In this case, he messed up.

4) Ezio is the actual [color=#FFCCCBMAFIA][/color] hammerer, he didn't really read his role clearly and messed this up.

##Vote Ezio

[Temasek22]

RE:Ezio and the entire hammerer shenanigans

Given that the hammerer can say the 5 magic words and end the day as long as it is in the 12 hour window of the final magic word. The plan to have everyone say it wouldn't work. And given Ezio has only 4 posts and suddenly said the magic phrase, there are a few possible possibilities, from most likely to least...

1) Ezio is clueless TOWN, and with minimal time scanning the thread he saw this such plan and jumped on it, not knowing it wouldn't work.

2) Ezio is a less important MAFIA role, possibly the traitor who has fired his shot and is entirely clueless about his team, he tries to distract attention from the actual hammerer who might be completing their phrase.

3) Ezio is a THIRD PARTY who wants to stir up the pot. In this case, he messed up.

4) Ezio is the actual MAFIA hammerer, he didn't really read his role clearly and messed this up.

##Vote Ezio

Fixed formatting, sorry

[bozotheclown]

Kitsune has now voted for 'and'

AND is 100% scum

Oh for god's sake.

Look, I helped recruit BM to the game. We talked extensively about how Mafia works before the game started as this *is* his first game and only my second (although I am definitely a fan) and so yes I'm going to tend to help him if he seems to be lost.

This is NAI and you're more than welcome to shoot or scum read me if that's what it takes to convince you.

I didn't realise it would accept a vote if I didn't put a name after the vote, so I carefully didn't put Ezio there even as an example as I didn't want to shift my vote. Once Dargo pointed out the issue I returned my vote where it's going to stay until Tem explains his reasoning.

I wish bozo could focus his suspicions on an actual scum, but he has some reasoning behind his scumread of me and I generally want to encourage reasoned hunting so that's extra points on top of the townlean I got from his recent meta.

I do wish he'd actually read my posts.

@Bozo: Yes, I was Mafia in M49. Yes, I had to vote for someone and it wasn't going to be Mafia on D1 of my first game (until that meta was explained to me). That gave me LOTS of options to choose from so I genuinely looked for signs of scumminess in the town + 3P players. Your play on Day 1 of M49 matched the heuristic I was using most closely, so I voted you.

I didn't fabricate a thing. I didn't know or particularly care your power/vanilla role since I had no viable way of determining it that early. I wanted a vote I could justify based on information everyone had.

That same dogged determination to hunt in the early game and tunneling on a mechanism that others disregard or outright reject is what you're doing here, and while it's personally frustrating to me it still points to TownBozo.

I am not sure you can really look for scum indicative behavior among players you know are town, because by definition, their behavior is town behavior no matter what they do.

[xorxes]

The down side to Ezio posting this was that we have to have a majority of our votes on him for 12 hours, which it not productive for town at all

Why do we have to do that, exactly? Wouldn't you trade any mislynch hammerer Ezio could produce for a confirmed scum? And if he does produce a mislynch, wouldn't it be interesting to see if it's the first chance he gets or not? And there's other reasons why a D1 hammer is good for town.