M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[Kitsune]

Actually, Kit seems really, really fishy. And then again damo probs is the big or something...

##vote kitsune

Would you like to elaborate on that?

You seem to be jumping on a wagon without much motivation of your own other than my alleged love for seafood.

Since I know the truth of the matter, I'd love to see you spell out your reasoning if there is any

[Kitsune]

To clarify; I understand why dargo and bozo are voting against me.

I don't agree with their reasoning even from a bird's eye view (obviously I already know I'm town, but they can't know that) but they've explained why they think it and they each get town points from me as a result.

Tem's vote seems a little more opportunistic, so I'm giving him scum points.

And sure why not, I still think Bunny is out of character but Tem's scumscore is higher with me now than Bunny's is.

OMGUS!

##Vote Temasek22

[bozotheclown]

If approaching EoD there are 9 votes on Bozo and 8 votes on Damo, apparently in Bozo's mind this means hardclaiming his role is the ONLY option. You wouldn't try to persuade people that Damo's a better lynch. You wouldn't point out evidence of your townie-ness, you wouldn't engage your accusers and rebut their cases. No, none of that. Hard claim or die.

Nonsense. Just a bunch of fucking nonsense.

This game is different than most in that there are no VTs. If you were leading 9 to 8, at what point would you claim your role? Would you let yourself get lynched without ever claiming?

[bozotheclown]

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

I am against, let people claim when they think it's needed. If it's too close for EOD, we might lose a town but we still get info.

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

[FlaviusAetius]

Finally, some peace and quiet. Is it just me, or is Flav giving off scum vibes here? Or is he just always this unhelpful?

... literally what? I didn’t do anything wrong here ok, I’m just giving my opinions and trying to find the scum, not sure what your doing buddy

[FlaviusAetius]

@bozo put me down for opposed as well

[FlaviusAetius]

#opposed
For my reasons stated against massclaiming in general (although bozo did answer my assassin fear...) but also, because if we force our top two wagons at the end of tomorrow night... and they reveal... we simply allow one of the potentially good PRs to be NKed. And the scum can simply claim their other roles.

I don't see how this helps.

I am suggesting only the top wagon at 24 hours be asked to claim. The idea is that if everyone has a valid vote in, the vote leader at 24 hours will be the player at risk of being lynched, so it give that player a chance to claim their role while we have time to consider if we still want to lynch him. The reason I think this is a good idea is that since everyone has a role, whoever is about to be lynched is going to claim a role to try to save themselves, so it is better for this to happen when we still have time to react. If the player is scum and they claim an non-verifiable role, we can still lynch them if we want. If the player is a third party, they would have to risk claiming a role that would be counter claimed. If the player is town and has a verifiable role, it gives them a chance to prove they are town. If the player is a "good PR", they would have to reveal themselves to the mafia at EOD anyway if they are still the top wagon.

Why do that when they can just naturally get the scum read off of them? Claiming should always be last resort, I agree it’s not a good idea at the last moment, but 24 hours in? And then move onto the next person? Seems just a little bit much

[bozotheclown]

In M49 (yes I know. Shush, it's all I have to go on) I found that bozo was pushing a plan I didn't entirely agree with and seemed to push it despite attempts to distract him into doing something else. As a result and developing my town hunting techniques I voted to lynch him on Day 1 and he flipped town.

Sorry Kitsune, I do not see how this could be anything except a scum slip, because you were mafia in M49, and therefore knew I was town.

##VOTE Kitsune

Bozo, in M49 I knew a lot of people were town. On Day 1 - when I had no comms with my scum partners and so no indication about how we should be doing this - I had the general idea that I should behave like Town to seem like Town, and so I did my best to find a strategy to find people who were acting scummy based on the information I should have as town.

I thought you were acting scummy based on the heuristics I picked up from Foxpants (or was it Foodcoats? Kept confusing them that game) and said as much, so you drew my vote.

Vote for me if you must. I don't think your plan will work as well as you think it will, but I support it so if I'm top wagon at 24 hours I'll claim.

I am a town role, but not so critical to town that I'd move heaven and earth to argue you all out of the lynch and likely deflect it onto another town player.

I am not sure how you can say I was "acting scummy" when you knew I wasn't mafia.

[bozotheclown]

For or against the 24 hour vote leader claiming, everyone please vote:

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera, Flavius
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

[rdrivera2005]

Can everyone see that when Bozo answered my criticism, he totally changed the assumptions underlying his proposal?

I think you didn't get what Bozo meant on that message you quote, but will let him to explain as people should not answer for others...

He said:

"The point is that the vote leader is eventually going to have to claim whether they want to or not to try to avoid getting lynched."

Tell me how you interpret this sentence.

This is bullshit and I agree with you, and that's one of the reasons I didn't like the idea

But the quote you referenced before (and Bozo answered) is about it being totally different if we have an agreement to force the biggest wagon to claim at 24h. It will induce something like a small EOD (consolidation, poor people having to actually vote,etc) to see who is the biggest wagon. This have some upsides, but I still think it have more downsides.

[BionicMole]

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

I am against, let people claim when they think it's needed. If it's too close for EOD, we might lose a town but we still get info.

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

You can mark me down as opposed as well. We don't need to lose another one because one of the Assassin's targets pops up with a forced reveal. I'm new but I feel like there could be a better way to get to the bottom of who is scum.

[bozotheclown]

For or against the 24 hour vote leader claiming, everyone please vote:

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera, Flavius, BionicMole
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

[worcej]

It's very tiring to play these games and hear the same useless plans from the same useless people over and over again all while other players who for whatever reason don't recognize the sad uselessness of those plans expect me to do their homework for them.

Here's a tl;dr if you need one for mafia on webDiplomacy:

• don't no lynch
• don't mass claim early
• don't hammer day 1
• don't needlessly inject mafia influence into something driven by town

Wise words from Sensei Sox

[worcej]

For or against the 24 hour vote leader claiming, everyone please vote:

in favor: bozo, Kitsune, Kalel
opposed: Jamie, dargorygel, damo, rdrivera, Flavius, BionicMole
abstentions: BunnyGo, BobMcBob, Temasek

You should already know my vote.

[worcej]

I'm leaning town on Bozo, he's involving himself more than usual and although I dont think his idea will work quite how he thinks it will, the motivation behind it seems genuine.

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

I disagree with this - he is involving himself on par for his normal pushes for claims.

Not that it matters really, bozo is obv!town as usual it's almost sickening.

[BunnyGo]

I'm leaning town on Bozo, he's involving himself more than usual and although I dont think his idea will work quite how he thinks it will, the motivation behind it seems genuine.

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

I disagree with this - he is involving himself on par for his normal pushes for claims.

Not that it matters really, bozo is obv!town as usual it's almost sickening.

Can you elaborate for the noobs here?

1) why obv town?

2) why sickening? Is there a joke he always rolls town?

[worcej]

This is town bosox. Sitting in his self appointed professor chair. Stepping on a few toes. But mostly follow through. He's not pretending to play. Even if he is making poor choices about television. His push hard on damo seemed legit to me.

What did you think, damo?

Seconded.

Not that anyone cares, but damo jumping at something via a vote is also pretty normal for him. I consider the reaction test atm to be T/3p vs. T/3p

[worcej]

I'm leaning town on Bozo, he's involving himself more than usual and although I dont think his idea will work quite how he thinks it will, the motivation behind it seems genuine.

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

I disagree with this - he is involving himself on par for his normal pushes for claims.

Not that it matters really, bozo is obv!town as usual it's almost sickening.

Can you elaborate for the noobs here?

1) why obv town?

2) why sickening? Is there a joke he always rolls town?

1) Because he usually always goes after a mass-claim push as town. Also, he isn't stupid about it. His goal is always 'give town more information' but disregards the cost. That's typical bozo.

2) Because I wish he wasn't always the same.

[worcej]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

Astute observation here. Towncred from me.

[worcej]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

That's interesting, because I thought this could actually be a townslip. Mafia would be reading this kind of a setup with a fine toothed comb, whereas I wouldn't necessarily expect a town player to be so thorough with the setup as much as I would expect them to know their own role.

In role madness, with as many 3P players, I would hope everyone reads the damn setup so they don't FUBAR this game.