MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[Kitsune]

Oh and as for the self deprecating part: I’m a maths professor. I got ego coming out of my ass all the time. I know I’m hot shot. But I’m also in favor of clearly stated arguments.

A Professor!

The natural enemy of the grad student getting sidelined into Mafia when she’s meant to be doing lab work!

Did I know that? I get the sense I knew that.

[BunnyGo]

Oh and as for the self deprecating part: I’m a maths professor. I got ego coming out of my ass all the time. I know I’m hot shot. But I’m also in favor of clearly stated arguments.

A Professor!

The natural enemy of the grad student getting sidelined into Mafia when she’s meant to be doing lab work!

Did I know that? I get the sense I knew that.

If you read my messages in the backstabbr game you can know AALLLL about me. Been sharing a lot.

[BunnyGo]

Soooo foxy? You run away again when I try to bring you back on topic?

[Nephthys]

A fine point to clarify: I do not see Vapor doing that. I do not think it’s something most players would do. Flav is a great counterexample.

Also those of us with a mild intellectual disability, can you clarify? I'm assuming you mean acting overly scummy from the start of D1

Behaving in a way that seems off and draws attention and is thereby read as scummy, yes. Not necessarily “acting scummy” but being seen that way for play style that draws attention.

So to sum it up in a sentence, would changing your meta come close to summing up "that"?

[BunnyGo]

I liked Neph's case on Vapor. Staying here unless something more convincing comes along:

##VOTE VAPORWAVE

[Kitsune]

Two of my scum reads and three of my townreads on the leading wagon, but he reads solid town to me and I’m not supporting that.

In the absence of any investigation or support vs Bunny (but not at all intimidated by his ProfClaim!) I’ll follow Chaqa for now onto Rdr.

##vote rdrivera

[BunnyGo]

Nah. ##UNVOTE

I just did an iso: my main complaint with reading Vaporwave as scum, is all their early reads were on point. Either they tagged people as town who have flipped town, or widely read as town. Maybe this is a scummy thing to do--have perfect correct reads on D1, but it seems weird to me.

[Chaqa]

Hmmm. I'm having some second thoughts on Rivera right now actually.

I do think Vapor could be scum. He has been buddying me all game, but I don't feel in my gut that he isn't town. I'll stay with Rivera atm.

Town: Jamiet, E.P., Chaqa
Townleans: Vapor, Neph, Bunny, foodcoats, Maniac, Kitsune
Scumleans: Damo, Temasek, Sulit, KalEl, rivera

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

[BunnyGo]

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Why?

[Kitsune]

Hmmm. I'm having some second thoughts on Rivera right now actually.

I do think Vapor could be scum. He has been buddying me all game, but I don't feel in my gut that he isn't town. I'll stay with Rivera atm.

Town: Jamiet, E.P., Chaqa
Townleans: Vapor, Neph, Bunny, foodcoats, Maniac, Kitsune
Scumleans: Damo, Temasek, Sulit, KalEl, rivera

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Where do you read Fox, Chaqa?

Does his absence put him on your Null list too?

[Chaqa]

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Why?

Noncommittal/useless votes so far, meta differences, and somewhat PoE.

His likely teammate if scum are Dargo, KalEl, and Maniac.

[Chaqa]

Hmmm. I'm having some second thoughts on Rivera right now actually.

I do think Vapor could be scum. He has been buddying me all game, but I don't feel in my gut that he isn't town. I'll stay with Rivera atm.

Town: Jamiet, E.P., Chaqa
Townleans: Vapor, Neph, Bunny, foodcoats, Maniac, Kitsune
Scumleans: Damo, Temasek, Sulit, KalEl, rivera

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Where do you read Fox, Chaqa?

Does his absence put him on your Null list too?

Town-ish, but not clear. Not sure, but the roleblock claim seems reasonable.

I’m also not sold that EMC wasn’t doctor and E.P. Is faking, but that is a late game problem.

[BunnyGo]

PoE means?

[Chaqa]

Process of Elimination. Based on my reads and clears, I had personally narrowed down the field a bit.

[BunnyGo]

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Why?

Noncommittal/useless votes so far, meta differences, and somewhat PoE.

His likely teammate if scum are Dargo, KalEl, and Maniac.

Would he be blatant enough to vig hunt hard like he did?

maybe a good vision target?

[Kitsune]

I guess my biggest ping on reading through Nephythys in ISOlation is how focused he is on how we play the game. From early remarks focusing on not letting people's emotions and egos get in the way of working out the facts, he started trying different ways to solve the puzzle and throwing out his reads to share with the town as a whole.

Current reads

Scum - Espresso Jamie Food Bozo

Town - Brain Xorx EMC

(quotes edited for brevity while maintaining their meaning)

Townlean

Worcej - Seems like he's moving forwards somewhat
Kitsune - Generally seems interested and throwing ideas out
Darg - Liking his post about the vapor wagon
Fox - Had a few decent posts, need more here
Damo - Kalel - Tem - Chaqa

Scumlean

Bunny - some odd posts, not really contributing too much
Maniac - Although some logical connections, seems caught up on a weird detail. Something I'd expect from Jamie
Vapor - Start of the game shenanigans, has improved somewhat though, not for lynch today
Rivera - Absolutely no content yet
ND

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

Town - Brain - Xorx - Kitsune - EMC - Bunny
Townlean - Damo
Scumlean - Food - Jamie - Kalel

Scum - Espresso - Rdr

Just some from the top of my head

oof, oh well my suggestion is

We do a focused on read on the last 5 pages of D1. For every post we determine whether the motivation behind it is likely to progress the game or derail the game.

We then post the results here for each person.

It not only gives us a chance to understand each other but if we agree that someone looks pretty dodge then that would be rather useful I think

There are many more of these, but these illustrate the point I'm making - he's consistently focused on different angles of analysing and investigating the information we have, and expressing his findings as clearly as he could which is a strong town ping for me. Confusion only helps the Scum.

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

(1) The more you do things and the more you ask of people the less people are willing to participate.
(2) Most thoughts here are pure conjecture and there's nothing to really go on (as opposed to later), later there is more and everything has meaning. Also putting more emphasis on reads now exemplifies the webdip meta of looking at meta. This is bad and why town tends to lose in recent games if mechanics don't fall their way.
(3) I think its coming from a scum perspective therefore bozo thinks he can get benefit, he's likely just going for towncred but in case there is something that he's thought of, I'm more hesistant to join in.
(4) If he actually cared about people's reads they aren't hard to find, I very recently published an entire read list, why couldn't he go and find it there. This indicates to me that he may not actually be that worried about the outcome. Again this would fit well with a scum presenting this for towncred.

He maintains a strong awareness of who is around, and constantly engages with them to ask questions and in someways fight the awful lag of 170 pages and global timezones.

Ok then, how bout we start with analysing your wagon at its peak

EspressoPatronum (5) Foxcastle Vaporwave KalelChase xorxes brainbomb Nephthys

How many scum do you think were on you and who do you suspect?

He seemed consistently keen to help newer players develop their own lines of thought and engage with the puzzle the whole town faces, despite occasional shade being tossed around at people "coaching" us. To mean that's a town read as well, more eyes having a better view on things if we know what we're looking at.

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

(1) The more you do things and the more you ask of people the less people are willing to participate.
(2) Most thoughts here are pure conjecture and there's nothing to really go on (as opposed to later), later there is more and everything has meaning. Also putting more emphasis on reads now exemplifies the webdip meta of looking at meta. This is bad and why town tends to lose in recent games if mechanics don't fall their way.
(3) I think its coming from a scum perspective therefore bozo thinks he can get benefit, he's likely just going for towncred but in case there is something that he's thought of, I'm more hesistant to join in.
(4) If he actually cared about people's reads they aren't hard to find, I very recently published an entire read list, why couldn't he go and find it there. This indicates to me that he may not actually be that worried about the outcome. Again this would fit well with a scum presenting this for towncred.

@Kitsune and no one else

What logical contradictions did I make? You parroted this back straight after someone else and I wanna check they are your thoughts.

High attention to detail. He hasn't confirmed this, but I get the sense he's reading everything everyone says very carefully and gleaning through it for clues, with arguably more energy than he could or would spend on this if he was either version of scum. I don't know the specifics of his new RL commitments, but I know how much mine chafe against the time I'm spending running analysis here. In the above, he caught me making an assumption I hadn't backed up by running the proper research and helped remind me what I need to be looking at.

Late game he starts making cases and trying them on for size, elaborating a little to make the full case after feeling something odd in a post, first for Maniac:

Maniac and the missing Bunny

This tale starts off as many wondrous epics do, a misunderstanding.

Maniac slams Bunny for missing to bot link within the first 10 posts. Honestly, fair enough, he eventually drops it more or less.

However! We come to Maniac's first read list. What do we find here? Nothing other than a town read for our lovely Bunny.

BunnyGo - town

Skip forward to his most recent read list.

BunnyGo – I had him as scum early doors. But now I’m not so sure. His Bozo vote seemed genuine. Not sure if he liked my xorxes case to curry favour with me and the case painted him in a better light.

We see he says that he had Bunny as scum early (True). He does however, forget that he had a townread on Bunny. Instead he casts suspicion on him saying that he isnt sure.

Now, this is hardly a reason to lynch him in and of itself but it certainly indicates that his read lists could all be conscious choices rather than actual reads

Then for Kalel:

So overall a null D1 and scummy N1/2

Going against what I said in my preface I'm gonna slap a little scumread on this guy.

He's crafty and intelligent. His misunderstanding of the nuances of the games has been genuine but its intermingled with some solid barbs and some serious logical inconsistencies.

And Vapor (huge one, excuse the link): http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3 ... 96#p106396

He's also one of the few that engaged with me on the item I had left over from the late BB, willing to present his views for each item I could have rather than the supportive but unhelpful "you're smart, you'll figure it out."

1. Hadron Enforcer (one shot gun)

Use this on someone widely scumread. Kalel/Maniac most likely at this stage

2. Cybernetic Eye (one shot cop scan)

Use this on someone who you think would be a good clear. Knowing that they will die shortly after, it is good to target someone that will contribute if cleared. I would limit this is a null read of yours in the top half of the posters.

3. Bottle of blue liquid (one shot role block)

This is fun if you hit the NK. Take your best shot

4. Holographic Spacesuit (one shot armor, only good for shots not NK’s) - Fairly useless now I think unless the Scum somehow get a gun?

Meh

5. Aero-Rig (one shot “commute” (leave the game for a phase, see time stone for rules))

I really am not sure how best this is used.

All of the above and the following appeal to the Town (and we're still in the majority guys, it just doesn't feel like it with all the friendly fire that's been tossed around) scream solid town to me, so he is and remains in my Towncore.

Just a little rant, cause I'm getting lowkey frustrated

@anyone who says they "can't" form a case.

You have ALL published scum reads. That means you have a read. Go back, find what posts give you this. Explain it, EVEN IF YOU JUST SAY ITS GUT. Literally anything. If on re-read you can't find why you're reading them, then you can't read hold that read on them. This game is getting painful. There are so few people that are doing anything besides saying X is scum. Please, literally give us anything to work with.

- Someone who's nearly in physical pain from reading this thread.

[Nephthys]

It had better not be.

"Irritate until you copulate" doesn't work on me.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

+25

[Nephthys]

Nah. ##UNVOTE

I just did an iso: my main complaint with reading Vaporwave as scum, is all their early reads were on point. Either they tagged people as town who have flipped town, or widely read as town. Maybe this is a scummy thing to do--have perfect correct reads on D1, but it seems weird to me.

This is rather poor logic. This is a 22 player game. Of which four are scum. If you were to publish a read list you might include 6 scum (as a very realistic example) This leaves you 16 players of which 10 AT LEAST are town, likely more.

While this is very crude and I think you have somewhat made (albeit a rather weak) point. I don't think its justification to override a weeks worth of content.

[Nephthys]

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Why?

Noncommittal/useless votes so far, meta differences, and somewhat PoE.

His likely teammate if scum are Dargo, KalEl, and Maniac.

Are these via POE or interactions? Who falls into what category?

[Nephthys]

Hmmm. I'm having some second thoughts on Rivera right now actually.

I do think Vapor could be scum. He has been buddying me all game, but I don't feel in my gut that he isn't town. I'll stay with Rivera atm.

Town: Jamiet, E.P., Chaqa
Townleans: Vapor, Neph, Bunny, foodcoats, Maniac, Kitsune
Scumleans: Damo, Temasek, Sulit, KalEl, rivera

I'm actually about 99% sure damo is scum.

Where do you read Fox, Chaqa?

Does his absence put him on your Null list too?

Town-ish, but not clear. Not sure, but the roleblock claim seems reasonable.

I’m also not sold that EMC wasn’t doctor and E.P. Is faking, but that is a late game problem.

Lets be real, the odds that EP as doc will either be NKed or correctly save someone is rather high and so something we likely will never have to worry about