MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[foodcoats]

@food, what made you decide that you wanted to go back and read the opening 15 pages?

I am aiming to reread D1 because we have a bunch of known towns so I can read the interactions between them and others. It's also a good refresher if something pings me on how someone is playing now to go back and see where they were D1.

[KalelChase]

BunnyGo has a habit of jumping into conversations between others lol. I am inclined to see that as townie, Bunny eager to get into the mix.

Why is this town points? It would seem that jumping into a conversation between others would be a scum move to derail, or even redirect, a conversation. Wouldn't a townie (unless needing to defend themselves), want to watch and see if the 2 person exchange reveals anything, or watch to see if anyone pivots erratically?

Also possible, yes. I was seeing it as "authenticity" which scum have to fake.

Ha! This has been my biggest thing (and why my most recent attempt and quantifying is probably a failure). Any behavior can be classified as looking like X, OR an attempt to pretend to look like X by a Y. Almost like getting down to a 50/50 guess in gunboat. I can see why Dip players like this, and also why, just like Dip, I might enjoy this more face to face.

[KalelChase]

Oh, EMC is browsing this forum... Hi EMC.

[Foxcastle]

I think I've misread somebody. Not disclosing now.

Vote count please.

That was clse.

Damo, what was this about?

[BunnyGo]

Thanks Kalel for doing some analysis. I’ve been pretty sick today (warning...do not go into the woods and hole still only mostly healed from a sinus infection , it will come back to kick your ass).

I’ll try to go back @somebody who suggested it (dargo, or Neph?) and redo my read.

[Foxcastle]

##VOTE SULIT

[BunnyGo]

You wanna do this? Or just some sort of analysis?

The last time I did I made that long post about Kalel where I thought he was less scummy after than I did before.

Just seen this.

As a follow up, I'm gonna ask you to go back over him and see whether, in your eyes, he's implemented everything he's been taught TO SOLVE rather than just not be scumread.

OK, will try now.

[BunnyGo]

OK, so. Checking out Kalel's iso (and disregarding the posts he made after I was asked to) I still think they are trying to learn and trying to solve. I think most of their methods are incorrect, and not going to lead anywhere, but I'm not too happy with my methods...so who am I to judge.

[BunnyGo]

Hey @sulit:

Gimme something to work with here. BB spoke highly of you, but so far I'm not seeing it. Help a bunny out!

[Foxcastle]

##VOTE SULIT

Also, am I colorblind, or is Sulit pretty much the same color as Maniac on the bot? (Colorblind is not out of the question here.)

[Temasek22]

@
TEMASEK
KALEL CHASE
YUUKI

Each of you has posted less than the GM. Even given the volume of Bunny's GM calls, this is an inadequate level of participation.

I'm sure at least one of you is scum. I'll re-read you all on the train this afternoon and report my findings.

Until then, you signed up to play this game! So take part, dammit!!

Sorry man, will try my best to improve my posting rate :/

[Foxcastle]

I reread Sulit, Kitsune, Maniac, Neph, and Damo per quinque.

Kitsune's Day 1 looks to me like could be newbie scum. I don't know why it stood out, but there's this particular moment on P2 where Kitsune replies to Brain who is replying to a Maniac post from early P1, but Kitsune is replying to Maniac's point about game activity.

Around P30, Neph suggests people make reads lists but aren't allowed to have nulls. Ignores Dargo's question of whether the players he left out of his townlean/scumlean list were nulls... Points out later that it's good to force scum to fake reads on people rather than hedging, but never seems to follow it up. However, I think it could actually be anti-town as it creates a lot of noise and paints a lot of people into ugly positions for others to attack...

Related but different: P87 Neph suggests to BunnyGo rereading the last hundred posts of D1 and categorizing each one. Then bails 7 minutes later, allowing BunnyGo to run on with it. Might be worth looking into what BunnyGo was on about before Neph derailed him.

Neph makes an early implicit read of Xorxes, about players not willing to make cases against "good" people. Around P36, Maniac makes an explicit case. I missed a run of games where Xorxes rolled scum, and the one recent one I've played where he rolled scum, he was very different. They'd both know that lynching Xorxes D1 would be 1) hard, 2) a nice break from having to have the inevitable debate about killing Xorxes N1 and whether he'd be saved...

There's some other opportunistic stuff from Neph. P61, implying Kalel was coached without saying it, for example.

I got through EOD2, and skimmed through the rest of it. Not that Sulit provided much additional info. Anyway, Neph and Maniac look worst, and I didn't see much of concern in Damo.

Which means Damo is scum and Neph and Maniac aren't. But I'm happy to stick on Sulit because either that will pan out now, or it will save us having to regret it later (I have not checked how many more mislynches we have).

Additionally, something I noticed about Kitsune's more recent play, though: he's having just. so. much. fun! Isn't that nice for him, almost like he's winning or something.

[Foxcastle]

Also, pretty sure that at least one of Neph, Rdrivera, Damo, Dargo, and Chaqa are scum. (I know that's not a short list.) But my guess on why I was RB'd on N1 is that some veteran player who knows my play style saw I was somewhat muted (and in particular, not doing a lot of sorting of players), and is savvy enough to know that that could have been an indication that I'm a PR. (It took me several games, and one in particular with Tom Bomb to learn that distinction myself.)

[Temasek22]

##unvote

Looking back at the game where I was scum with him, rdr is more far-sighted than this. My guess is SK is also playing a far-sighted game

[Temasek22]

I’m interest in how Yuuki got lynched yesterday. Whilst he bears some responsibility there was also eight people who sealed his fate.

We know xorxes and Jamie are town. Espresso made a case against yuuki and pushed him, so his actions were consistent, I have issues with espresso for other reasons, but he is consistent here. Rdrivera barely mentions him but votes for him over me. At the end of the day people should decide between lead wagons and Rdrivera says he preferred Yuuki lynch over me. I vote yuuki very late. I was the other wagon and wanted to make sure lynch wasn’t SK influenced. Tem – says it's just a placeholder. Foxcastle – scum reads yuuki but no detail. Chaqa – flips-flops, first reads yuuki as def town or maybe town. Then says Yuuki is his scumlean then yuuki is lurking town.

Vaporwave, bunny and Dame all scum read yuuki but surprisingly weren’t on the lynch at the end. This is as relevant as the eight people who hanged yuuki.
The SK reduced the vote count. Maybe I’m Gamora? Maybe rdrivera isn’t the SK? So many were on me earlier on the day, it could be SK was on me earlier.

Questions:
@Chaqa: What did you actually think of yuuki and why did you flip-flop on your read?
@Vaporwave, Damo and BunnyGo – why were you scum reading someone but not voting for them when they were the lead wagon?
@Tem – you voted yuuki as a placeholder why?
@Foxcastle, could you explain a bit more why you voted Yuuki?

TIA

He didn't post for like 36 hours straight at 1 point, it's a no brainer

[BunnyGo]

Can I ask any more experienced player to do a quick and specific dive?

I’m concerned about Neph pocketing and coaching me.

Can you check our interactions and assume I’m town see if what he’s doing is kosher or scummy?

[Kitsune]

I reread Sulit, Kitsune, Maniac, Neph, and Damo per quinque.

Kitsune's Day 1 looks to me like could be newbie scum. I don't know why it stood out, but there's this particular moment on P2 where Kitsune replies to Brain who is replying to a Maniac post from early P1, but Kitsune is replying to Maniac's point about game activity.

Around P30, Neph suggests people make reads lists but aren't allowed to have nulls. Ignores Dargo's question of whether the players he left out of his townlean/scumlean list were nulls... Points out later that it's good to force scum to fake reads on people rather than hedging, but never seems to follow it up. However, I think it could actually be anti-town as it creates a lot of noise and paints a lot of people into ugly positions for others to attack...

Related but different: P87 Neph suggests to BunnyGo rereading the last hundred posts of D1 and categorizing each one. Then bails 7 minutes later, allowing BunnyGo to run on with it. Might be worth looking into what BunnyGo was on about before Neph derailed him.

Neph makes an early implicit read of Xorxes, about players not willing to make cases against "good" people. Around P36, Maniac makes an explicit case. I missed a run of games where Xorxes rolled scum, and the one recent one I've played where he rolled scum, he was very different. They'd both know that lynching Xorxes D1 would be 1) hard, 2) a nice break from having to have the inevitable debate about killing Xorxes N1 and whether he'd be saved...

There's some other opportunistic stuff from Neph. P61, implying Kalel was coached without saying it, for example.

I got through EOD2, and skimmed through the rest of it. Not that Sulit provided much additional info. Anyway, Neph and Maniac look worst, and I didn't see much of concern in Damo.

Which means Damo is scum and Neph and Maniac aren't. But I'm happy to stick on Sulit because either that will pan out now, or it will save us having to regret it later (I have not checked how many more mislynches we have).

Additionally, something I noticed about Kitsune's more recent play, though: he's having just. so. much. fun! Isn't that nice for him, almost like he's winning or something.

You're sweet, but no. Actually I've been more frustrated than not lately, although I did have a brief surge of excitement when I was actually allowed to talk to you all again.

I'm still building my heuristics about how I scumhunt, and you can probably rely on another surge of enthusiasm when we actually nail one as I go back and try to figure out how I could have told that. I have my suspicions, and I've posted them, but you're still townish null in my reads. I understand you have a reasonable track record in this game, but I want to see more actual findings over speculation before I towncore you and possibly get you killed.

I'm glad Ike got me into this game, but it's not my top priority and if my peers or Loki decide it's my time to die I've already passed my personal record of a D2 lynch (when I was the Troublemaker of all things) so I'm content to go back to focusing on the Nexus Tournament.

webDip is in, after all.

[Kitsune]

Can I ask any more experienced player to do a quick and specific dive?

I’m concerned about Neph pocketing and coaching me.

Can you check our interactions and assume I’m town see if what he’s doing is kosher or scummy?

Both ways please.

The case against Neph and the case against Bunny (who is my current suspect).

I'll be glad as hell if they both come up clean, but if they're not then either of them could be leading us in the wrong direction with their findings and the other an unwitting ally.

[BunnyGo]

Fox. He was just coaching me to dive on Kalel again. I am slightly worried about it, but I don’t want to be paranoid.

[BunnyGo]

Can I ask any more experienced player to do a quick and specific dive?

I’m concerned about Neph pocketing and coaching me.

Can you check our interactions and assume I’m town see if what he’s doing is kosher or scummy?

Both ways please.

The case against Neph and the case against Bunny (who is my current suspect).

I'll be glad as hell if they both come up clean, but if they're not then either of them could be leading us in the wrong direction with their findings and the other an unwitting ally.

I mean. Doing an ISO on me is cool, but it doesn’t make any sense for Neph to be coaching me in public if I’m scum. This was a specific ask. Go do an ISO on me yourself and post stuff here.

When I did it on Kalel, as I was reading through I clicked on every post that stood out and opened a new tab on the “original link”. Then it was easier to quote everything in one post with my thoughts.

Go. Do it. Have fun. But I hope you catch better than Nathan Lyon.