Elon Musk is an undemocratic disgrace

[Jamiet99uk]

Trump's election has given the richest cunt in the world apparently limitless power and nobody knows how to hold him to account.

Power without accountability is despotism.

Defend the recent actions of Elon Musk here, if you do not agree with the title of this thread.

[Jamiet99uk]

The world’s richest man, whose products reach millions across the United States, celebrated on Twitter (X) today the fact he just gutted the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, meant to protect consumers from predatory businesses.

He is literally dismantling any checks on his and other corporate oligarch’s power.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

In the US system elected representatives have a lot of leeway to appoint un-elected officials, unlike the UK/Canadian parliamentary systems. Musk is one of these appointees. It's not unusual for such an appointed person to hold a lot of power in the US government (e.g., the treasury secretary is appointed in the same manner).

Is Musk wielding his lawfully-given power well? So far I'd say definitely not.

Are there obvious conflicts of interest? Yes. He should be required to, at a minimum, manage his business interests at arms' length while in office. It is truly bizarre to me that the US system doesn't require this.

Is some of what Musk doing illegal? I'm not an expert on this, but I won't be surprised to find out some of it is. And unfortunately even if some of his actions are illegal, I'm far from certain Musk will be held to account.

It's openly corrupt. It's obviously a bad idea. But Musk's appointment isn't necessarily "despotism".

[Jamiet99uk]

What you're saying is that the US political system is designed to be openly corrupt.

[Jamiet99uk]

Openly corrupt systems are not democracy.

[Spartaculous]

Musk is one of these appointees. It's not unusual for such an appointed person to hold a lot of power in the US government (e.g., the treasury secretary is appointed in the same manner).

The secretary of the treasury is a Senate-confirmed position. The Senate voted 68–29 to approve his nomination a week or two ago.

Musk's appointed position (whatever it is) is not one for which he was confirmed to by the Senate.

[flash2015]

Let me give the counterpoint here.

The US budget deficit for 2024 was 1.8 trillion dollars, equaling 36.5% of the total revenue of 4.92 trillion. Almost 900 billion of the spending is interest payments which is bigger than the defense budget. And this is during what is supposed to be a good economy! This is completely and utterly unsustainable

At some point something must be done. This can either be by choice or world markets will eventually force us to do something which will be much more painful.

There likely is a lot of wasteful spending being done by the Federal government (and a lot of outdated antiquated processes)...and if you really wanted to try to cull some of it having someone independent to do the culling is probably a good way to do it.

Now whether Elon Musk is the right person to do this is another question...and there isn't enough fat in the federal workforce to meaningfully change the trajectory of the federal budget. Most of the spending is in what people in the US call "entitlements" (e.g. Social Security/Medicare etc.) or in Defense.

Both parties have been kicking this can down the road...or ignoring the problem completely. If this leads to us at least talking about the problem again, that would be a good thing.

[Jamiet99uk]

The thing is, Flash, at the same time as this, Trump is promising huge tax cuts which, if his promises are carried out, will more than offset any savings Elon is able to achieve.

[flash2015]

Sure, from the other side of this you could argue this is "Starve The Beast: Endgame" which dates back to Reagan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

I am strongly against tax cuts now too...though most of what Trump will be trying to do is to extend the tax cuts from his first term. This is the second time that Republicans have time limited tax cuts (GW Bush did it first) to make their cost look less only to turn around several years later and make the unaffordable tax cuts permanent. Ugh.

For me this Trump "tax cut" made my taxes increase as I no longer could deduct state taxes from my federal return (this was done to punish so called "blue states" which have higher state taxes). I am pissed that Democrats had four years to revert this but did nothing due to idiots like AOC and my idiot congressperson who voted against their own constituents interests. Fuck you too, Democrats, you completely out of touch pos.

The policy of "no tax on tips" is absolutely bonkers (which sadly Harris also bought into). I hate with a passion tipping culture and this will just create even more of it.

[CaptainFritz28]

Openly corrupt systems are not democracy.

Nor is the United States.

Although I suppose you probably don't mean democracy in it's original sense so much as you mean the blanket term of government by the people. Arguably, the U.S. has fallen from that definition as well.

[Jamiet99uk]

Openly corrupt systems are not democracy.

Nor is the United States.

Although I suppose you probably don't mean democracy in it's original sense so much as you mean the blanket term of government by the people. Arguably, the U.S. has fallen from that definition as well.

I mean any system in which the people broadly have the power to choose their Government, where the elected Government is intended to represent the people, and where the people can hold that Government to account.

[learnedSloth]

Democracy should ensure that voters get the politicians they deserve. Politicians also rise up out of the people. You can't get anyone better than who is there.

[Jamiet99uk]

Democracy should ensure that voters get the politicians they deserve. Politicians also rise up out of the people. You can't get anyone better than who is there.

Is this intended as an assertion that the American public, in general, are evil and corrupt, or something?

Getting ready to hit us with a Bible verse, I assume?

[Jamiet99uk]

Are you suggesting that there is no US citizen more suited to be President than Donald Trump?

If that were the case there really would be no hope for America and the rest of the world would be well advised to unite to scour them from the face of the globe.

But I do not believe that is so. I believe there are plenty of good people in the USA. They merely labour under a corrupt system which has been hijacked by the super rich, and they have been fed so many lies they do not know how to change things.

[flash2015]

Democracy should ensure that voters get the politicians they deserve. Politicians also rise up out of the people. You can't get anyone better than who is there.

The problem with the current primary system is that it forces the nominees for each side to pander to their base to win the nomination. The general election is all about firing up your base to get out and vote and trying to depress the vote of the other side (scare tactics and negative campaigning). If we had an open primary with a runoff or preferential voting for president, I believe we would elect a far better president.

[CaptainFritz28]

Democracy should ensure that voters get the politicians they deserve. Politicians also rise up out of the people. You can't get anyone better than who is there.

Is this intended as an assertion that the American public, in general, are evil and corrupt, or something?

Getting ready to hit us with a Bible verse, I assume?

I think his point is that if you want politicians of moral respectability, you've got to have a general populace of moral respectability.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Democracy should ensure that voters get the politicians they deserve. Politicians also rise up out of the people. You can't get anyone better than who is there.

Is this intended as an assertion that the American public, in general, are evil and corrupt, or something?

Getting ready to hit us with a Bible verse, I assume?

I think his point is that if you want politicians of moral respectability, you've got to have a general populace of moral respectability.

And just to throw a grenade in this thread, Evangelicals are Trump's core constituency. While some are no doubt reluctant or strategic Trump voters, many appear to think he is doing a great job (e.g., https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/30/voters-views-of-trump-and-biden-differ-sharply-by-religion/).

Trump is purely Pagan. Might makes right. Retribution. Literally the opposite of a Christ-like figure. Evangelicals are a morality-obsessed and politically powerful group, but they're worse-than complicit in the rise of Trump.

Whatever moral society the Founders had in mind, it is not present even in America's religious communities.

[CaptainFritz28]

Evangelical America is also more or less corrupted by common and unconscious heresies, purely cultural Christianity, and the like. So yeah, I'd agree. What the Founding Fathers and previous generations had is largely not present among modern American Christians. (Not to say that they didn't have their own problems, of course.)

[Jamiet99uk]

Donald Trump's spiritual advisor Paula White has described herself as God's chosen "apostle". She claims that God personally gave her "every right and authority" to declare the White House "holy ground".

Other recent Paula White quotes include "To say no to Trump would be saying "No" to God".

She has alleged that anyone who doesn't support Trump is "part of demonic network" against Christ.

She's a fucking nutcase who should be in a lunatic asylum. Instead she is in the White House.

[CaptainFritz28]

She's a fucking nutcase who should be in a lunatic asylum. Instead she is in the White House.

At long last, we agree on something!

I probably wouldn't put it in those extreme of terms, though.