Abandon all hope, ye who vote in America

[Octavious]

After seeing some of the highlights of the, for want of a better word, debate... there's only one conclusion that can be drawn.

America is screwed

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

The state of the discourse was abysmal.

Biden was shambolic, skeletal. Any good points he made during the debate were totally undone by his stage presence (or lacked thereof). It's hard to imagine a weaker opponent to Trump.

Trump was petty, evasive, and shameful. He also had seniors' moments, but they'll be readily overlooked since his opponent is a corpse. Trump simply *won* this debate.

The established wisdom is that debates don't actually change voting intentions. Throw that out the window this year, Trump stands to gain massively anytime he can get on a stage next to Biden. Trump will probably be the next president.

[Octavious]

It was remarkable that 33% of the audience still seemed to think Biden won. Assuming that a similar percentage of Republicans are equally blinded to all reality by extreme partisanship, that puts the fraction of Americans who aren't worth listening to at a staggering 2/3s!

[Jamiet99uk]

Neither of them "won" if you look at it with any reasonable perspective.

Biden looked like a dithering old man.
Trump looked like Trump.

Neither of those things are good.

[Jamiet99uk]

Fans of British TV comedy may enjoy this image I found:

[Octavious]

I venture the opinion that saying Trump loses by virtue of his existence is perhaps not as reasonable a position as you think it is.

That image, however, absolves you of all sin

I have to say it is jolly decent of our closest allies in Washington and Paris to go to such lengths to make us feel better about our dismal election in Blighty

[Jamiet99uk]

I venture the opinion that saying Trump loses by virtue of his existence is perhaps not as reasonable a position as you think it is.

That image, however, absolves you of all sin

I have to say it is jolly decent of our closest allies in Washington and Paris to go to such lengths to make us feel better about our dismal election in Blighty

I am not saying Trump will lose the election, I'm saying he looked an arse in the debate. They both looked awful for different reasons.

Trump could win. He's a disgusting, bigoted, lying old asshole. Biden is moderately more reasonable but he is also a decaying corpse. America is barely a democracy. Britain is not very much better as lying, scheming, grasping bastard Starmer is likely to achieve a sweeping victory against a party led by a man whose only saving grace is that the two Conservative leaders immediately before him were even worse than he is.

[Octavious]

You think so? I always got the impression that Sunak was a decent sort of chap, in an irritating rich boy kind of way. You'd punch him, but feel guilty about it afterwards. Kier is similar, but without the guilt.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Neither of them "won" if you look at it with any reasonable perspective.

To be clear I think it's disastrous that Trump won the debate, but he really did.

Major Democrats publicly aired the possibility of choosing a new candidate after the debate.

Prediction markets moved sharply in Trump's favour after the debate. The debate was more impactful than Trump's conviction. https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/7456/Who-will-win-the-2024-US-presidential-election

[Jamiet99uk]

You think so? I always got the impression that Sunak was a decent sort of chap, in an irritating rich boy kind of way. You'd punch him, but feel guilty about it afterwards. Kier is similar, but without the guilt.

He and his wife are both, independently of each other, multimillionaires.

The existence of multimillionaires is evidence of a failed society with an economy that does not serve the people.

[Jamiet99uk]

Billionaires should be jailed and their assets put to public use.

[learnedSloth]

It was remarkable that 33% of the audience still seemed to think Biden won. Assuming that a similar percentage of Republicans are equally blinded to all reality by extreme partisanship, that puts the fraction of Americans who aren't worth listening to at a staggering 2/3s!

I think you would be more than staggered if you heard the number of people failing that criterion!

[Octavious]

So... France happened.

[Jamiet99uk]

So... France happened.

It's frightening how the politics of bigotry and racism are becoming mainstream again. Decades of social progress under serious threat.

[learnedSloth]

All this reminds me of

THE word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
(Jeremiah 18)

[Jamiet99uk]

All this reminds me of

THE word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
(Jeremiah 18)

What does that mean in English?

[Pennsta7]

Well, ... 'jeremiad' entered into common parlance. Don't know if Jer. 18 etc. influenced English Lit or literature in English.

Reality check: A hung parliament or 326.

Stick that in your kabbalistic whatchamacallits. 326

[Octavious]

darmok and jalad at tanagra

[Crazy Anglican]

Something my fellow Americans should bare in mind would be this historical trend:

When you dismantle a monarchy you usually get a republic.
When you dismantle a republic you usually get a dictatorship.
When you dismantle a dictatorship you usually get rubble.

[learnedSloth]

All this reminds me of

THE word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
(Jeremiah 18)

What does that mean in English?

'Tis English, but I guess you want an explanation. I'm not sure what needs explaining, but the ancient Israel is an example of the last 2 verses. Nineveh is an example of the previous 2:

AND the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 ¶ So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 ¶ And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
(Jonah 3)