we need to talk about Jumbos

[orathaic]

Ok, not all politics is life or death...

https://youtube.com/shorts/xQeWUBCc0rs? ... uQLD2bKUDu

How we think about planets has cja ged over and over again, and usually based on new knowledge. Last time Pluto got demoted from it's planet status despite us already knowing lots about it (and the other TNOs). So was some kind of political decision.

So along comes a new thing, Jupiter Mass Binary Objects (JUMBOs), are you have to ask yourself, are they planets? Do we need a new category between planet and star? If the current definition of a planet requires orbit around a star can these be automatically discounted?

Very important questions, but since most of the objects in our solar system all orbit in the same plane (and mostly spin in the same direction too) i think we can safely say it all former from the same gas cloud and thus we haven't been hit by a JUMBO

[Octavious]

The fundamental issue is one of arrogance within the scientific community. The English language is determined by usage. Definitions are created and evolve and the engine of creation and evolution is the English speaking community. The great dictionaries exist to monitor and record this, but there is no institution to act as a guardian or control of the language.

Now scientists are at liberty to tweak the scientific definition of a planet as much as they like, but as far as the English language is concerned Pluto is a planet because people have been told it is for many years and now believe it to be true. Science has no power to change this, nor should it. Pluto is a planet.

Now, regarding the subject of JUMBOS in particular, I recommend a read of the following

https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.01231#

Partly because it's very good, but mostly because it was written by an old friend of mine

[orathaic]

Language is indeed defined by usage, but use of language by scientists has for a long time been different from lay people.

Look at the words energy or power. In physics they have very specific meanings, in common english they could be the same thing, or one could he refering to political power... Is this also arrogance? Iirc, you learn about as many new words/definitions/concepts in an average science class as you do an average language class.

Thanks for the link, i will have a look.