Modern Colonialism

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Jamiet99uk
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#21 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:27 pm

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:38 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:12 pm
It is very disingenuous to say "India wasn't a colony" on the basis of its status for a period of less than three years right at the end of that 200-year span.
It certainly would if that's what I'd said, but I didn't. India did not change status from colony to dominion. India was not a colony.

If we're talking disingenuous you'd do better to focus on your 200 year nonsense. It's quite a small part of India that could be considered part of the Empire for that long.
You are wrong. India was colonised by the East India Company, as the agent of the Crown, and later by the crown directly. For decades, India functioned as a British colony.

Please demonstrate otherwise.
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: Modern Colonialism

#22 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:43 pm

If you want to try and prove to me that India was a colony by all means do so. Personally I couldn't care less what you believe India's position in the Empire happened to be so I have no inclination to spend any great amount of time trying to change your mind. I am rather curious to why it matters to you, though. It seems a relatively small detail in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#23 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:52 pm

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:43 pm
If you want to try and prove to me that India was a colony by all means do so. Personally I couldn't care less what you believe India's position in the Empire happened to be so I have no inclination to spend any great amount of time trying to change your mind. I am rather curious to why it matters to you, though. It seems a relatively small detail in the grand scheme of things.
Then why are you arguing about it, if you do not care?
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: Modern Colonialism

#24 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:07 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:45 pm
Ah, I was afraid you would say that.

I guess we need to create a new thread called Modern Dominionism, or even Modern Unique Indian Status, if we ever wanted to discuss India's relation to England.

I suppose it's only natural that the only way we can discuss India is if we use the exact same words and follow the same terms as the Empire that subjugated India.

If Only We had a Universal Term for that!! Alas, this has no relation to any other process anywhere else in history- According to the British At Least and who would understand India better?
The universal term is imperialism. Well understood and without any ambiguity. The whole colonialism thing comes from an Americentric view of the world stemming from their experience of Empire being exclusively colonial. Much like how in Britain the terms "overseas" and "foreign" mean the same thing, but in other nations they have differing meaning
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#25 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:13 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:52 pm
Then why are you arguing about it, if you do not care?
I do not care what you believe, Jamie. I am quite comfortable with the notion that there are a great many things that you believe that are not accurate. I am less comfortable but accepting of the fact that I also believe things that aren't accurate. I do, however, care about speaking the truth.
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#26 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:21 pm

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:13 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:52 pm
Then why are you arguing about it, if you do not care?
I do not care what you believe, Jamie. I am quite comfortable with the notion that there are a great many things that you believe that are not accurate. I am less comfortable but accepting of the fact that I also believe things that aren't accurate. I do, however, care about speaking the truth.
So what is your point, exactly?

India was never colonised by the British?

Is that your point?

I struggle to understand what you are getting at.
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: Modern Colonialism

#27 Post by Octavious » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 am

My point, which was rather clearly stated, was that if you're using the same word for corporate exploitation as you are for a research colony in the Antarctic wastes you have created an unnecessary linguistic problem for yourself. A point that has been heavily reinforced by the subsequent posts by yourself and others.
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#28 Post by orathaic » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:37 am

First of all. Nobody refers to research bases in the Antarctic as colonies except you.

And secondly one erson here did say corporate exploitation was a modern form of colonialism. Nobody except you seems to be confused about it.
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#29 Post by Octavious » Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:54 am

orathaic wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:37 am
And secondly one erson here did say corporate exploitation was a modern form of colonialism. Nobody except you seems to be confused about it.
Tolstoy said so quite clearly earlier, ora. A comment that was subsequently highlighted by a certain orathaic. I fear it is you who seems confused, by your own actions.

A little reminder for you if you need it
Tolstoy wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:08 am
Colonialism is alive and well in a modern form. It no longer needs colonial governments, armies, and salutes to a king or queen 10,000 miles away, however. It takes the form of loans from the IMF, Chase, Blackrock, and other combines of monetary power; extractions of natural resources by foreign corporations; 'business consultants' being brought in to invest the wealth of 3rd world nations into 1st world stock market swindles
orathaic wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:09 am
Yes, very different definitions, see also Tolstoy's.

Which i like from a moral stance
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#30 Post by Doom427 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 pm

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:07 pm
Doom427 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:45 pm
Ah, I was afraid you would say that.

I guess we need to create a new thread called Modern Dominionism, or even Modern Unique Indian Status, if we ever wanted to discuss India's relation to England.

I suppose it's only natural that the only way we can discuss India is if we use the exact same words and follow the same terms as the Empire that subjugated India.

If Only We had a Universal Term for that!! Alas, this has no relation to any other process anywhere else in history- According to the British At Least and who would understand India better?
The universal term is imperialism. Well understood and without any ambiguity. The whole colonialism thing comes from an Americentric view of the world stemming from their experience of Empire being exclusively colonial. Much like how in Britain the terms "overseas" and "foreign" mean the same thing, but in other nations they have differing meaning
Imperialism isn't actually the same term- it pushes the focus on the Empire instead of the colony. While for you this is no difference at all, it actually matters quite a bit for those trying to describe colonized states. Or as you would have it, Imperialized states.

But the debates kinda pointless, isn't it? I don't get the sense you've ever actually read anything on Modern Colonialism, so you're attacking the name of a theory you know nothing about. I assume next you'll complain that all Sciences are Physical, so Physics needs to change its name? But I doubt that- acting obstinate there has no political advantage to you, while pretending that colonialism can't exist outside of a state calling something it's colony obviously gives you some form of advantage.
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#31 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:20 am

Octavious wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 am
My point, which was rather clearly stated, was that if you're using the same word for corporate exploitation as you are for a research colony in the Antarctic wastes you have created an unnecessary linguistic problem for yourself. A point that has been heavily reinforced by the subsequent posts by yourself and others.
You are the only person who thinks this is a discussion about the Antarctic research station(s). It's not.
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: Modern Colonialism

#32 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:50 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:20 am
Octavious wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 am
My point, which was rather clearly stated, was that if you're using the same word for corporate exploitation as you are for a research colony in the Antarctic wastes you have created an unnecessary linguistic problem for yourself. A point that has been heavily reinforced by the subsequent posts by yourself and others.
You are the only person who thinks this is a discussion about the Antarctic research station(s). It's not.
It literally is as you have discussed exactly that. Also, how exactly would you describe Villa Las Estrellas if not a colony? It is pretty much as close to the definition of colony as you could ever expect, and being less than half a century old it is pretty damned modern
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#33 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:09 am

Doom427 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 pm
But the debates kinda pointless, isn't it? I don't get the sense you've ever actually read anything on Modern Colonialism, so you're attacking the name of a theory you know nothing about.
I'm not attacking any theory. I have never even heard of a theory of Modern Colonialism and it is the first time such a theory has been mentioned in this thread. This thread was created by ora to ask
orathaic wrote: So i was wondering, where do webdipper consider to still be colonized entities?
which I have answered in good faith. If you wish to discuss an academic theory by all means start a thread on it, where I recommend explaining what the theory happens to be at the start.

Doom427 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 pm
I assume next you'll complain that all Sciences are Physical, so Physics needs to change its name?
Literally haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about here.
Doom427 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 pm
pretending that colonialism can't exist outside of a state calling something it's colony obviously gives you some form of advantage.
Some form of advantage? What have been smoking? :lol: This is a politics forum in a quiet backwater of the internet that exists purely to give people something to do whilst checking game messages or waiting for a phase to end. What kind of advantage do you imagine I could possibly get? :razz:
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Re: Modern Colonialism

#34 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:34 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:09 am
Doom427 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:15 pm
But the debates kinda pointless, isn't it? I don't get the sense you've ever actually read anything on Modern Colonialism, so you're attacking the name of a theory you know nothing about.
I'm not attacking any theory. I have never even heard of a theory of Modern Colonialism and it is the first time such a theory has been mentioned in this thread. This thread was created by ora to ask
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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