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Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:32 pm
by Fluminator
I'm bumping this after a recent development that COVID was likely a lab leak. In hindsight now it should have been really obvious considering it originated at the doorsteps of a lab dealing with this exact type of disease in Wuhan. (Like what are the chances the lab has nothing to do with it)
I'm less angry now then I was when I made this thread, but this is just another example of the medical experts being totally wrong. And again I recognize mistakes happen but why did they have to silence the people who disagree who are now shown to be correct?
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:08 pm
by Octavious
One imagines because of a philosophy in which a clear but wrong decision is considered preferable to confusion and no decision. The medical profession is dominated by best guesses based on very incomplete information, which is why medical advice makes complete 180s quite so often.
But yeah, the way our institutions enforced the narrative as if it was the gospel truth left a bad taste in the mouth, and has further damaged the credibility of the powers that be
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:08 pm
by Randomizer
I can show you another report from an equally qualified source saying that is wrong and it likely originated from natural causes jumping from an animal species like others in the past. It isn't obvious and the truth may never be known due to China's blocking of early research to find the source.
As to why you have silencing: money and politics. Being "right" brings in money and it is a political game to get your group on top. Just look at how much money was made by companies promoting a "cure" based on shoddy research.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:49 pm
by CaptainFritz28
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:39 pm
Fluminator wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:35 pm
flash2015 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:20 am
What nonsense are you talking about? "Big pharma" had absolutely zero power to "enforce people take their drugs". These decisions were made by governments based on what they believed was the right decision to protect the populace.
You may disagree with the decisions (and certainly these mandates stayed around way, way too long)...but "CEOs of corrupt drug companies" were not the cause.
The governments ceded power to the medical experts in the government. Of which almost all of them were in the pockets of big pharma or the World Economic Forum, so in a sense they were the true powers.
America is governed by the super rich. This is not news.
Which, then, leads to the point of the post:
Why give more power to the super rich (in this case regarding medicine) when they screw us over again and again? Why trust those who do not have in mind our best interests to lead us?
You mentioned you are open to the idea of giving the field of medicine entirely to the government, and yet you then acknowledge that the government is run (indirectly or directly) by the super-rich, those who only want to get richer and more powerful, no matter the expense to others.
When has the government ever been more efficient or better in the scientific and medical fields than the private sector? The idea you propose is similar to that of Canada's, which healthcare system is swamped and unable to keep up, not to mention the "cure" of euthanasia so often given out there.
No, the issue is not the private corporations, nor even the government. The issue is that the people have allowed all power to be stripped of them (who should be the foundation of governmental power) and given to the government and power-hungry CEOs. The solution cannot be found by giving the government more power, nor by letting the government give its power to the aforementioned CEOs. Rather, the solution is to return the power of government to its rightful owner, the people. Then, the people must make the decision to boycott such corrupt companies as those in big pharma, and to recognize evil when they see it. Only a change in culture, in that sense, will solve this issue.
One final note - you asked where there is evidence of the misdirection and manipulation of medical "experts" regarding vaccines (and presumably the main contention here is over the COVID-19 vaccines) - I have a bit of evidence from the CDC's own VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) which shows over 36,173 deaths from covid vaccines, which, in 3 years, accounts for 78% of ALL vaccine deaths reported in the last 33 years. From 2020-2023, there have been 21 times as many reports of death from covid vaccines as from all other vaccines combined.
Here is the source:
https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
We were told the vaccines were perfectly safe, yet even if only half, or even if only a quarter of those deaths were actually the case, it was an unnecessary loss of life. More research should have been done, because now we have found that there are other things (which we knew about then) that would have had a similar affect as the vaccines positively without the 35k deaths.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:48 pm
by CaptainFritz28
Randomizer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:08 pm
I can show you another report from an equally qualified source saying that is wrong and it likely originated from natural causes jumping from an animal species like others in the past. It isn't obvious and the truth may never be known due to China's blocking of early research to find the source.
As to why you have silencing: money and politics. Being "right" brings in money and it is a political game to get your group on top. Just look at how much money was made by companies promoting a "cure" based on shoddy research.
Isn't it ironic that the very thing which supposedly gave us access to an infinite wealth of knowledge (that is, the internet and associated technology) also made it exponentially easier to persuade the masses of false narratives and hide the truth?
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:52 pm
by orathaic
CaptainFritz28 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:49 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:39 pm
Fluminator wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:35 pm
The governments ceded power to the medical experts in the government. Of which almost all of them were in the pockets of big pharma or the World Economic Forum, so in a sense they were the true powers.
America is governed by the super rich. This is not news.
Which, then, leads to the point of the post:
Why give more power to the super rich (in this case regarding medicine) when they screw us over again and again? Why trust those who do not have in mind our best interests to lead us?
You mentioned you are open to the idea of giving the field of medicine entirely to the government, and yet you then acknowledge that the government is run (indirectly or directly) by the super-rich, those who only want to get richer and more powerful, no matter the expense to others.
When has the government ever been more efficient or better in the scientific and medical fields than the private sector? The idea you propose is similar to that of Canada's, which healthcare system is swamped and unable to keep up, not to mention the "cure" of euthanasia so often given out there.
No, the issue is not the private corporations, nor even the government. The issue is that the people have allowed all power to be stripped of them (who should be the foundation of governmental power) and given to the government and power-hungry CEOs. The solution cannot be found by giving the government more power, nor by letting the government give its power to the aforementioned CEOs. Rather, the solution is to return the power of government to its rightful owner, the people. Then, the people must make the decision to boycott such corrupt companies as those in big pharma, and to recognize evil when they see it. Only a change in culture, in that sense, will solve this issue.
One final note - you asked where there is evidence of the misdirection and manipulation of medical "experts" regarding vaccines (and presumably the main contention here is over the COVID-19 vaccines) - I have a bit of evidence from the CDC's own VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) which shows over 36,173 deaths from covid vaccines, which, in 3 years, accounts for 78% of ALL vaccine deaths reported in the last 33 years. From 2020-2023, there have been 21 times as many reports of death from covid vaccines as from all other vaccines combined.
Here is the source:
https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
We were told the vaccines were perfectly safe, yet even if only half, or even if only a quarter of those deaths were actually the case, it was an unnecessary loss of life. More research should have been done, because now we have found that there are other things (which we knew about then) that would have had a similar affect as the vaccines positively without the 35k deaths.
I don't agree with rhe majority of what you say here, but i will share this commentrary on the adverse events:
https://youtu.be/z22PQkbdpwQ?si=qNpeG8LEBE49MpIh
It is likewise critical of the vaccone safety record and the risks associated with it. Discussing adverse events in depth.
I will note that this source was one who was very careful throughout the pandemic to support vaccination and keep on top of the research.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:19 pm
by Fluminator
CaptainFritz28 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Randomizer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:08 pm
I can show you another report from an equally qualified source saying that is wrong and it likely originated from natural causes jumping from an animal species like others in the past. It isn't obvious and the truth may never be known due to China's blocking of early research to find the source.
As to why you have silencing: money and politics. Being "right" brings in money and it is a political game to get your group on top. Just look at how much money was made by companies promoting a "cure" based on shoddy research.
Isn't it ironic that the very thing which supposedly gave us access to an infinite wealth of knowledge (that is, the internet and associated technology) also made it exponentially easier to persuade the masses of false narratives and hide the truth?
It makes sense though. When you have unlimited information you can reinforce literally any belief with loads of data. If you want to believe the sky is orange, I bet you could find enough on the internet to believe that if you exclude all the counter arguments.
That's one of my main concerns with big pharma pushing to censor any belief that's different from what they want. I think allowing counterarguments or other points of views are the best way to counter this.
I'm aware of the idea that allowing other points of view make fringe views seem more influential than they really are, but I would argue censoring them is even worse as it just radicalizes more people. I've yet to see a case where censoring a belief actually made it disappear.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:06 pm
by orathaic
Of course you haven't seen it, that idea was censored and has disappointed!
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:06 am
by CaptainFritz28
Fluminator wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:19 pm
CaptainFritz28 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Randomizer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:08 pm
I can show you another report from an equally qualified source saying that is wrong and it likely originated from natural causes jumping from an animal species like others in the past. It isn't obvious and the truth may never be known due to China's blocking of early research to find the source.
As to why you have silencing: money and politics. Being "right" brings in money and it is a political game to get your group on top. Just look at how much money was made by companies promoting a "cure" based on shoddy research.
Isn't it ironic that the very thing which supposedly gave us access to an infinite wealth of knowledge (that is, the internet and associated technology) also made it exponentially easier to persuade the masses of false narratives and hide the truth?
It makes sense though. When you have unlimited information you can reinforce literally any belief with loads of data. If you want to believe the sky is orange, I bet you could find enough on the internet to believe that if you exclude all the counter arguments.
That's one of my main concerns with big pharma pushing to censor any belief that's different from what they want. I think allowing counterarguments or other points of views are the best way to counter this.
I'm aware of the idea that allowing other points of view make fringe views seem more influential than they really are, but I would argue censoring them is even worse as it just radicalizes more people. I've yet to see a case where censoring a belief actually made it disappear.
I entirely agree. There's a reason we have free speech, and that is to allow all opinions to be shared.
To quote Thomas Paine, "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Or, as George Washington put it, "For if Men are to be precluded from offering their Sentiments on a matter, which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences, that can invite the consideration of Mankind, reason is of no use to us; the freedom of Speech may be taken away, and, dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to the Slaughter."
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:19 am
by Jamiet99uk
And yet you are desperate to stifle the free speech of anyone who criticises Israel.
Fascinating display of disingenuous double standards.
Is someone in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv paying you, or are you just really blinkered by your religious fervour?
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:55 am
by CaptainFritz28
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:19 am
And yet you are desperate to stifle the free speech of anyone who criticises Israel.
Fascinating display of disingenuous double standards.
Is someone in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv paying you, or are you just really blinkered by your religious fervour?
Last I checked, debate is not the same as stifling free speech. If you are saying I wish that no one would speak against Israel, that is simply a lie. I hope there are people on all sides of every issue, including this one. Don't try to put words in my mouth. Especially not when you are the one who threatens to mute whomever they disagree with.
Also, wrong thread. Grudges are a useless thing, you shouldn't let yourself get so worked up about an issue that you hold one.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:26 am
by CaptainFritz28
However, if you want to get on to the topic of the Palestine thread, here ya go:
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:53 pm
I've muted Captain Fritzl and won't be entertaining his bad faith zealotry any further.
If you want to talk about free speech, be in favor of free speech first. Otherwise, you've absolutely no credibility to be criticizing me for attempting to engage in debate. I apologize for responding to your points with logic. If you can't refute my points, that is not a fault of my "stifling free speech," but of your own logical errors. I won't argue them here, but my point is, if you are going to accuse me of stifling free speech, at least don't be a hypocrite.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:05 pm
by learnedSloth
CaptainFritz28 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Isn't it ironic that the very thing which supposedly gave us access to an infinite wealth of knowledge (that is, the internet and associated technology) also made it exponentially easier to persuade the masses of false narratives and hide the truth?
The masses permit it by following feeds instead of actively seeking info.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:55 pm
by CaptainFritz28
learnedSloth wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:05 pm
CaptainFritz28 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:48 pm
Isn't it ironic that the very thing which supposedly gave us access to an infinite wealth of knowledge (that is, the internet and associated technology) also made it exponentially easier to persuade the masses of false narratives and hide the truth?
The masses permit it by following feeds instead of actively seeking info.
Which is why I find the declining trust in news media to be a good thing. People are more likely to look to the sources (studies, video evidence, direct quotes, etc.) if they don't blindly follow the opinions of their subscribed to news source.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:51 pm
by Fluminator
What are people's thoughts on this? Agree or disagree?
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:36 pm
by Jamiet99uk
Tucker Carlson is a stupid cunt who should fuck off.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:37 pm
by Jamiet99uk
Doctors were right to recommend the vaccine.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:38 pm
by Jamiet99uk
Also why does it say he is broadcasting from Slovenia?
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:47 pm
by CaptainFritz28
The more evidence that surfaces, the more I find that the vaccine was just about the worst option available, and mainly recommended because it made medical corporations more money. Thirty thousand people died because the vaccines were not properly vetted and tested, and other options were not considered which were just as effective. On top of that, people were lied to about their effectiveness and told that the vaccines would stop them from getting Covid, when in fact they didn't stop the spread but only lessened symptoms slightly.
This is a case I find to be caused by greedy corporations and politicians willing to profit from them. I'm surprised Jamie isn't eager to blame this on Capitalism.
Re: Medical Experts
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:56 pm
by Fluminator
I still haven't fully understood why the anti-capitalist left has such a strong trust for the massive medical corporations who's number one motive is profit.
Even now as evidence continues to pile up how rushed these vaccine are and corrupt the process was, there is a minority of anti-capitalists who still love the companies like Pfizer. I am genuinely curious Jamiet's opinion on them right now.