War, what is it good for?

[CaptainFritz28]

I see Jamie is the arbitrator of all morality and justice now.

[CaptainFritz28]

A parent brings a child into the world knowing full well that there will be hardship, that their child will disobey them, and that punishment will be necessary. They know that there may be harm done to many people because of their child. And yet, are they unjust and unloving for having a child? Of course not!

If a parent punishes their child for disobeying them, and does not allow them to grow up a spoiled brat but corrects their wrongs with discipline, are they unjust? Are the parents unloving and cruel if that child gets cancer at 60 years old, since the parents knew that that might be a result of their having a child?

No. On the contrary, a parent who does not punish their child, and who lets them do whatever they please without consequence is considered an unloving and poor parent.
If a parent does not allow their child free will but controls their every action, never allowing them to make a decision contrary to the parent's, they are considered cruel and unjust.
Is it the parent's fault that the child disobeys them? Is it the parent's fault that the child does not submit to their every command? No! If the parent does not spoil their child, but disciplines them when they disobey and allows them free will, the fault lies to the child when they cause mayhem against the parent's advice.

God knew we would mess up. And yet, to force us to conform to every command of His would be far more cruel than punishing us when we disobey Him. Giving us the free will to obey or deny Him is the most loving thing possible. Punishing us when we disobey Him is the most just thing possible. Providing forgiveness and mercy at NO COST to us, but only sacrifice of His own is the most loving, gracious, and merciful thing He could do! When a parent sacrifices themself for their child's sake, they are considered heroes! Why must we deny this same title to God?
Sure, He created us knowing there would be sin, knowing that there would be consequences of sin, and knowing that free will would lead to many denying and disobeying Him. But it is not His fault that we choose to do so.

The fact that God gives us free will, forgives us when we disobey Him, and sacrificed Himself for our sake is not cruel, nor unjust or unloving. It is quite the opposite.

[learnedSloth]

Plus, who created that tree? GOD.

Who created the snake that spoke to Adam and Eve? GOD.

GOD did all of this. Even if you believe it. God is responsible for original sin.

I think that the fall was inevitable, but God placed man in the environment where he could discuss it in familiar terms.

[Crazy Anglican]

I am pretty sure that the intent of the authors of the Scripture was not to portray God as a villain and to insult the intelligence of anyone who worships Him. So, while Jamie has every right to interpret Scripture in any way he sees fit, if (m)any people actually believed as he tells us we should believe; it is fair to say that Christianity would have long since gone the way of Mithras.

Thus, I'd suggest we just let Jamie cut up his strawman; when he decides to actually argue against anything resembling legitimate Christian doctrine; we can address his concerns then?

[Crazy Anglican]

Isn't this one supposed to be about war?

[CaptainFritz28]

Isn't this one supposed to be about war?

It got a bit off topic when someone suggested either killing everyone in the contested area in Israel and Palestine or else replace them with Atheists,and i responded saying that Atheism would not fix the problems in the middle east.

[Jamiet99uk]

A parent brings a child into the world knowing full well that there will be hardship, that their child will disobey them, and that punishment will be necessary. They know that there may be harm done to many people because of their child. And yet, are they unjust and unloving for having a child? Of course not!

If a parent punishes their child for disobeying them, and does not allow them to grow up a spoiled brat but corrects their wrongs with discipline, are they unjust? Are the parents unloving and cruel if that child gets cancer at 60 years old, since the parents knew that that might be a result of their having a child?

No. On the contrary, a parent who does not punish their child, and who lets them do whatever they please without consequence is considered an unloving and poor parent.
If a parent does not allow their child free will but controls their every action, never allowing them to make a decision contrary to the parent's, they are considered cruel and unjust.
Is it the parent's fault that the child disobeys them? Is it the parent's fault that the child does not submit to their every command? No! If the parent does not spoil their child, but disciplines them when they disobey and allows them free will, the fault lies to the child when they cause mayhem against the parent's advice.

God knew we would mess up. And yet, to force us to conform to every command of His would be far more cruel than punishing us when we disobey Him. Giving us the free will to obey or deny Him is the most loving thing possible. Punishing us when we disobey Him is the most just thing possible. Providing forgiveness and mercy at NO COST to us, but only sacrifice of His own is the most loving, gracious, and merciful thing He could do! When a parent sacrifices themself for their child's sake, they are considered heroes! Why must we deny this same title to God?
Sure, He created us knowing there would be sin, knowing that there would be consequences of sin, and knowing that free will would lead to many denying and disobeying Him. But it is not His fault that we choose to do so.

The fact that God gives us free will, forgives us when we disobey Him, and sacrificed Himself for our sake is not cruel, nor unjust or unloving. It is quite the opposite.

What about infants dying of diseases such as leukaemia?

Do you believe this is God's punishment for the infant's inheritance of original sin? Or is he killing children to punish their parents?

[CaptainFritz28]

A parent brings a child into the world knowing full well that there will be hardship, that their child will disobey them, and that punishment will be necessary. They know that there may be harm done to many people because of their child. And yet, are they unjust and unloving for having a child? Of course not!

If a parent punishes their child for disobeying them, and does not allow them to grow up a spoiled brat but corrects their wrongs with discipline, are they unjust? Are the parents unloving and cruel if that child gets cancer at 60 years old, since the parents knew that that might be a result of their having a child?

No. On the contrary, a parent who does not punish their child, and who lets them do whatever they please without consequence is considered an unloving and poor parent.
If a parent does not allow their child free will but controls their every action, never allowing them to make a decision contrary to the parent's, they are considered cruel and unjust.
Is it the parent's fault that the child disobeys them? Is it the parent's fault that the child does not submit to their every command? No! If the parent does not spoil their child, but disciplines them when they disobey and allows them free will, the fault lies to the child when they cause mayhem against the parent's advice.

God knew we would mess up. And yet, to force us to conform to every command of His would be far more cruel than punishing us when we disobey Him. Giving us the free will to obey or deny Him is the most loving thing possible. Punishing us when we disobey Him is the most just thing possible. Providing forgiveness and mercy at NO COST to us, but only sacrifice of His own is the most loving, gracious, and merciful thing He could do! When a parent sacrifices themself for their child's sake, they are considered heroes! Why must we deny this same title to God?
Sure, He created us knowing there would be sin, knowing that there would be consequences of sin, and knowing that free will would lead to many denying and disobeying Him. But it is not His fault that we choose to do so.

The fact that God gives us free will, forgives us when we disobey Him, and sacrificed Himself for our sake is not cruel, nor unjust or unloving. It is quite the opposite.

What about infants dying of diseases such as leukaemia?

Do you believe this is God's punishment for the infant's inheritance of original sin? Or is he killing children to punish their parents?

For starters, I believe that there is a certain age at which a child is unable to understand sin, God, repentance, and the like. I think that before a certain age, there is a time of grace in which infants who die will be counted righteous. I am not entirely sure of this, but my support for it comes from 2 Samuel 12:23, in which David ends his lamenting over the death of his infant child because "I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
That said, yes. All disease is because of the fall, including the disease of infants.

[Octavious]

So I hear we're attacking Yemen soon...

[CaptainFritz28]

Yeah, they've been illegally shooting missiles at commercial shipping, and attempting to board commercial ships. 23 times now, under the guise of being anti-Israel, and not hitting a single ship heading to an Israeli port.

[orathaic]

AN ISRAELI MINISTER has today called for the return of Jewish settlers to Gaza and said Palestinians should be encouraged to emigrate, a day after similar remarks by another far-right politician.

Src: Agence France-Presse

[CaptainFritz28]

Wait, you mean Israeli politicians also have extreme views that often don't reflect the beliefs of the majority of the party, just like in America, Britain, Canada, and every other nation?

[orathaic]

No, I mean people who are worried about ethnic cleansing in Gaza must have been listening to the rethoric of those in charge.

Aka, there is a difference between a politician and a minister.

Edit: I don't say anything about the millions of Israelis whonot only disagree with the government's action,but who hacebern actively protesting them. But then neither did the mainstream media (src: a friend's parents live in Israel)

[Octavious]

An unfortunate problem with Israel's proportional representation system of voting is that it means that fringe parties will on occasion achieve ministerial positions in government. If they had followed the example of Britain, the US, et Al they wouldn't have this issue. But regardless, the fringe ministers don't have much power in the grand scheme of things

[Jamiet99uk]

A parent brings a child into the world knowing full well that there will be hardship, that their child will disobey them, and that punishment will be necessary. They know that there may be harm done to many people because of their child. And yet, are they unjust and unloving for having a child? Of course not!

If a parent punishes their child for disobeying them, and does not allow them to grow up a spoiled brat but corrects their wrongs with discipline, are they unjust? Are the parents unloving and cruel if that child gets cancer at 60 years old, since the parents knew that that might be a result of their having a child?

No. On the contrary, a parent who does not punish their child, and who lets them do whatever they please without consequence is considered an unloving and poor parent.
If a parent does not allow their child free will but controls their every action, never allowing them to make a decision contrary to the parent's, they are considered cruel and unjust.
Is it the parent's fault that the child disobeys them? Is it the parent's fault that the child does not submit to their every command? No! If the parent does not spoil their child, but disciplines them when they disobey and allows them free will, the fault lies to the child when they cause mayhem against the parent's advice.

God knew we would mess up. And yet, to force us to conform to every command of His would be far more cruel than punishing us when we disobey Him. Giving us the free will to obey or deny Him is the most loving thing possible. Punishing us when we disobey Him is the most just thing possible. Providing forgiveness and mercy at NO COST to us, but only sacrifice of His own is the most loving, gracious, and merciful thing He could do! When a parent sacrifices themself for their child's sake, they are considered heroes! Why must we deny this same title to God?
Sure, He created us knowing there would be sin, knowing that there would be consequences of sin, and knowing that free will would lead to many denying and disobeying Him. But it is not His fault that we choose to do so.

The fact that God gives us free will, forgives us when we disobey Him, and sacrificed Himself for our sake is not cruel, nor unjust or unloving. It is quite the opposite.

What about infants dying of diseases such as leukaemia?

Do you believe this is God's punishment for the infant's inheritance of original sin? Or is he killing children to punish their parents?

For starters, I believe that there is a certain age at which a child is unable to understand sin, God, repentance, and the like. I think that before a certain age, there is a time of grace in which infants who die will be counted righteous. I am not entirely sure of this, but my support for it comes from 2 Samuel 12:23, in which David ends his lamenting over the death of his infant child because "I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
That said, yes. All disease is because of the fall, including the disease of infants.

So you agree that God uses disease to punish babies for Adam eating an apple, something which the babies are clearly not responsible for.

Seems pretty awful to me.

[Jamiet99uk]

An unfortunate problem with Israel's proportional representation system of voting is that it means that fringe parties will on occasion achieve ministerial positions in government. If they had followed the example of Britain, the US, et Al they wouldn't have this issue. But regardless, the fringe ministers don't have much power in the grand scheme of things

He is the Minister for National Security - the equivalent of the UK Home Secretary. His ministry controls the Police, the Prisons, and the Border Force, among other agencies. His is one of the most powerful ministerial posts in Israel's government.

He doesn't hold a "fringe" portfolio; he isn't the junior minister for bouncy castles. He's a senior member of Cabinet and a racist, genocidal fascist.

[Octavious]

I never said he was minister of bouncy castles. I said he was from a fringe party who has negotiated himself a ministry due to the painfully flawed PR system that some people mysteriously think will be good for Britain. But the extent of his powers are somewhat limited by the small size of his political backing.

[Jamiet99uk]

I thought you were a Liberal Democrat?

PR is one of their favorite policies.

[Octavious]

This may come as a shock, but I have never believed in all the policies of any party I have been a member of. PR very much falls into that category.

[Octavious]

Recognising the broad consensus as expressed by 44 countries around the world on December 19, 2023, as well as the statement by the UN Security Council on December 1, 2023, condemning Houthi attacks against commercial vessels transiting the Red Sea, and in light of ongoing attacks, including a significant escalation over the past week targeting commercial vessels, with missiles, small boats, and attempted hijackings,

We hereby reiterate the following and warn the Houthis against further attacks:

Ongoing Houthi attacks in the Red Sea are illegal, unacceptable, and profoundly destabilising. There is no lawful justification for intentionally targeting civilian shipping and naval vessels.

Attacks on vessels, including commercial vessels, using unmanned aerial vehicles, small boats, and missiles, including the historic first use of anti-ship ballistic missiles against such vessels, are a direct threat to the freedom of navigation that serves as the bedrock of global trade in one of the world’s most critical waterways.

These attacks threaten innocent lives from all over the world and constitute a significant international problem that demands collective action.

Nearly 15 percent of global seaborne trade passes through the Red Sea, including 8 percent of global grain trade, 12 percent of seaborne-traded oil and 8 percent of the world’s liquefied natural gas trade. International shipping companies continue to reroute their vessels around through the Cape of Good Hope, adding significant cost and weeks of delay to the delivery of goods, and ultimately jeopardizing the movement of critical food, fuel, and humanitarian assistance throughout the world.

Let our message now be clear: we call for the immediate end of these illegal attacks and release of unlawfully detained vessels and crews. The Houthis will bear the responsibility of the consequences should they continue to threaten lives, the global economy, and free flow of commerce in the region’s critical waterways.

We remain committed to the international rules-based order and are determined to hold malign actors accountable for unlawful seizures and attacks.