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Boris "Badenuff" Johnson usurps Ms May and now warrants a dedicated thread in the Forum. Where's Natasha ? Can Rocky and Bullwinkle save the EU ?

Boris is the proverbial dog that caught the car. Now he actually has to create the wonderful Brexit fairyland he and his cohorts have promised.

Boris has been planning this for years. He's a ruthless campaigner with an impressive head on his shoulders and an ability to come across as likable. I rather suspect that his plan for Brexit will work pretty much exactly as he intends it... I just have no idea what that plan actually is.

The cabinet could well be fun, and Dominic Cummings (Moriarty reborn) is his top advisor.

Quite a diverse mix in the top jobs.

Dominic Raab, son of a Jewish refugee from Czechoslovakia and married to a Brazilian, is Foreign Secretary

Priti Patel, daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants, is Home Secretary

Sajid Javid, son of Pakistani immigrants, is the Chancellor.

All of them impressively big hitters and keen Brexiteers. It's going to be rather tricky for the Remain side to portray them as little Englanders, methinks.

Yep, Boris will get it done & UK will prosper anyway under renewed leadership.
The whole Brexit fiasco should have been avoidable, but in truth the damage was done way before the 2016 referendum. We’ve had 30+ years of poor leadership in UK (since Maggie dragged us out of the awful 70’s).
It’s a shame Boris’ primary job is “D for Deliver Brexit” but the sun will rise on a new successful future, as long as UK grasps the opportunity & makes it happen.

Priti Patel an impressive big hitter? This the same Priti Patel that got fired for conducting fifth columnist secret negotiations with a foreign government in Israel without the knowledge of the Prime Minister during her previous stint in the Cabinet?

As for Dominic Raab, the Brexit Secretary who negotiated May's Deal and then promptly resigned because he couldn't support it - moments after defending it in Parliament, I find "Big Hitter" to be quite a stretch there, too.

Javid at least hasn't managed to screw anything up thus far that we know of, which makes him unusually qualified for the current Tory crop. The fact he managed to get out of the Home Office before it tanked him is quite advantageous for him, too. That post is usually a Poisoned Chalice (and it was only sheer incompetence from her rivals that stopped it from tanking Theresa May).

Not an impressive big hitter, an impressively big hitter... relative to the current crop of non entities in Parliament at least. Good enough to get the occasional eye-catching 6, but you wouldn't want to rely on then to build a good innings.

The state of politics is appalling at the moment. Labour and the Tories are competing to see who can be the most unelectable, and even the Lib Dems (no doubt feeling left out) have recruited the turd Chuka to their rank.

For a gentleman of Octavious's refinement to call someone a turd, the target of that barb must really merit contempt. In this case I must agree. Chuka Ummuna is a man with apparently no principles, no backbone, and no substance. A sad indictment of the state of British politics, in which the political class is as removed from the people as it ever has been.

My main concern with Boris is not that he's stupid (because he isn't), nor is it that he's incompetent (which he isn't).

No, my concerns are twofold.

First of all, he is completely, utterly, intrinsically untrustworthy. Nothing he says may be relied upon. This is not to call him a pathological liar. He is capable of truth. It's merely the case that in any given moment, he will say whatever he thinks benefits him the most, be it truth or falsehood. Tomorrow, he may say the opposite, if that suits tomorrow's purposes.

Like all clowns, his clownish appearance is an act, a veneer. He may not apply greasepaint, but still he wears a mask. His great cunning lies in his ability to be widely underestimated.

Secondly, I am deeply concerned by his motivations. It is clear to me that he is not motivated in the slightest by public service or public good. His motivations appear to be twofold - personal ego, and personal avarice. I think I can summarise the true Boris manifesto:

1. Obtain, to the greatest degree possible, personal power and influence for Boris.
2. Maintain and develop the personal wealth and privilege of Boris.
3. Maintain and develop the personal wealth and privilege of Boris's friends, sponsors, and peers.

And perhaps to some extent:

4. Ensure the survival of the Conservative & Unionist Party, so that (3) may be pursued and embedded in the long term.

I know little about borisov except his hair is in shambles

But almost all politicians even if their original intentions were pure end up developing their personal wealth and power. Greed is the ultimate killer

I don't really buy the idea that Boris is in it for wealth - I think that wealth is such a second nature to him that he automatically assumes he'll always have a high supply of it. His comments about how he'd "probably have to give up" those cushy journalist payments if he became PM illustrate how nonchalant he is to the whole issue. He's rich and he'll always be rich.

I think it's far more about ego - not in a dissimilar way to David Cameron - and simply believing that he "deserves" power, it's his god-given right to run the country. He's like an ancient Roman Populist, willing to say or do anything that will endear him to "the people" and get him into power.


As for the lack of real "Big Hitters", Octavious isn't far off the mark. In the current Tory party it seems that being good at your job is actually an outright negative - as those who have screwed things up keep getting promoted while those who have actually performed well in high profile Cabinet roles keep getting sent to the backbenches (Justine Greening and Penny Mordaunt being most notable examples). When the "most competent Cabinet member" is probably Michael Gove you know that you're in trouble.

Sadly Labour do indeed also miss having big-hitters. From the Shadow Cabinet it's quite hard to think of many who have really caught the eye or performed particularly well - McDonnell has certainly grown into the shadow chancellor role, and Keir Starmer has garnered a lot of respect, but the rest of them are mostly non-entities or outright weak points too. Long-Bailey seems to be an "up and comer" but she's got a lot to prove yet.

Of course having about a third of the MP's still holding the leadership and membership in barely concealed contempt there doesn't help. Tom Watson uses his Deputy Leader role to continually boost the prospects of every party other than Labour, and while most of the more rabidly anti-leadership MP's have either stood down (Tristram Hunt), lost the whip and been deselected (Danczuk), or defected to ChangeUK (Umunna, Leslie, Grapes) or to general independence (Austin), there's still a handful of backbenchers who get bizarrely high amounts of airtime on BBC and use it to continually attack the party (Jess Phillipps springs to mind). And given how incompetent that lot showed they were both in the 'Chicken Coup' leadership challenge a few years ago and then in the hilarious shitshow that was ChangeUK, it looks like the stain of it runs through both camps in the party.

As for the Lib Dems - given their general shortage of MPs it's not really a surprise that they'll take whoever they can get at the moment. I doubt Umunna will be the last of the ChangeUK lot they let in.

Octavious wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:53 pm

Boris has been planning this for years. He's a ruthless campaigner with an impressive head on his shoulders and an ability to come across as likable. I rather suspect that his plan for Brexit will work pretty much exactly as he intends it... I just have no idea what that plan actually is.

The cabinet could well be fun, and Dominic Cummings (Moriarty reborn) is his top advisor.

Hahahahahaha.

Good luck. The only plan seems to be fucking over the country, unless no deal planning is a bluff. We'll see if they can even get a no deal through Parliament.

orathaic wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:48 am

Hahahahahaha.

Good luck. The only plan seems to be fucking over the country, unless no deal planning is a bluff. We'll see if they can even get a no deal through Parliament.

Have you not been paying attention, Ora? Of course he can't get no deal through Parliament. That's been obvious for ages. In politics, as in Diplomacy, the most important skill is being able to count. The fact that you're even entertaining an idea you know is impossible shows how effective his bluster has been.

He can't get no deal through Parliament, so either he has no intention of getting no deal, or he is planning on getting a new Parliament. I suspect the latter.

As I have understood, Boris can get his no-deal by not signing the deal on the table and not asking EU for an extension of leave date. Then UK will leave the EU by failing to approve the deal at hand.

And I do not think there is any room for renegotiation either...

@peterlund: no, parliament has the power to force the PM to ask for an extention. So as Octavious stated, a new parliament willing to not do so is his only hope. A general election in October days before brexit will be the closest remain vote get to a second referendum. 'Project Fear'* and national pride will likely feature heavily.

Which may just win an election... But I don't know if Boris actually wants a no deal.

The latest Nigel Farage headlines seem to indicate Boris is planning to remain in the single market and customs union for a few more years... Which would be perfectly fine for trade, and move brexit negotiations into new trade deal negotiations... Definitely something he could spin as a victory.

So, update from the by-election

The Lib Dems won it, and are telling everyone who will listen that it's part of their stunning return to relevance and the beginning of the end of Brexit.

The Tories came a surprisingly close second, and are telling everyone who will listen that this above expectations result is a sign that Boris and the new clarity on Brexit is winning people over.

The Brexit Party took enough votes off the Tories for them to lose, and are telling everyone who will listen how they have the ability to destroy any hope of a Tory majority in a new election if they so wish.

Labour rolled over and died, and aren't saying much to anyone.

The corpse of UKIP twitched slightly, but that may have just been the wind.

Octavious wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:15 pm

So, update from the by-election

The Lib Dems won it, and are telling everyone who will listen that it's part of their stunning return to relevance and the beginning of the end of Brexit.

The Tories came a surprisingly close second, and are telling everyone who will listen that this above expectations result is a sign that Boris and the new clarity on Brexit is winning people over.

The Brexit Party took enough votes off the Tories for them to lose, and are telling everyone who will listen how they have the ability to destroy any hope of a Tory majority in a new election if they so wish.

Labour rolled over and died, and aren't saying much to anyone.

The corpse of UKIP twitched slightly, but that may have just been the wind.

So Britain doesn't have preferential voting? I ask because if it did I would have assumed Brexit Party preferences would have flowed to the Tories.

flash2015 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:35 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:15 pm

So, update from the by-election

The Lib Dems won it, and are telling everyone who will listen that it's part of their stunning return to relevance and the beginning of the end of Brexit.

The Tories came a surprisingly close second, and are telling everyone who will listen that this above expectations result is a sign that Boris and the new clarity on Brexit is winning people over.

The Brexit Party took enough votes off the Tories for them to lose, and are telling everyone who will listen how they have the ability to destroy any hope of a Tory majority in a new election if they so wish.

Labour rolled over and died, and aren't saying much to anyone.

The corpse of UKIP twitched slightly, but that may have just been the wind.

So Britain doesn't have preferential voting? I ask because if it did I would have assumed Brexit Party preferences would have flowed to the Tories.

Straight first-past-the-post pluarality voting is what we have. It's like in Mafia. Each voter has one vote, and votes for one particular candidate only. A candidate only needs one more vote than the nearest competitor, to be elected.

There was a referendum about introducing a form of preferential voting back in 2011, but the public were strongly against the idea. Well, the ones who bothered to vote were strongly against it anyway. I guess the majority were unfussed.