It's Okay To Be White

[JamesYanik]

and the funny thing about the idea of race itself is how misconstrued by the public it is.

*black* isn't close to a homogenous genetic race, if you take a man with black skin from Brazil and a black man from Morocco, they're more likely to have genetic similarities to local hispanic communities (southern Spain vs Brazil) than they will with one another.

not to mention, these are constantly in flux, as populations shift demographics over time.

and even MORE not to mention (weird phrase, since I'm going to mention it now, but screw it I'm using this phrase)... even if you prove scientifically that one population of humans is less intelligent than another, that still isn't an argument against equality of rights.

also may I mention (goddamnit I need to stop mentioning things) that there has historically been no population class with, say, permanently lower IQ levels, if you take measurements from populations in Africa after they migrate to south Europe or the USA (I'll try to find the study I'm thinking of and link it here in a bit) the 2nd and 3rd generations almost immediately see spikes in IQ rates, often due to superior medical treatment and nutrition of their parents, during childbearing, and in young developmental years.

and that's not even mentioning the fact that IQ isn't the best indicator for intelligence, but rather a problem solving indicator in very specific fields.


that's not to say there isn't ANY difference in-between population groups concerning IQ, but keep in mind

1. there isn't just 1 gene determining IQ
2. the heritability of IQ is still of extreme debate, as population level surveys find some correlation, but you constantly have super-high outliers coming from lower IQ parents, and super-low outliers coming from average IQ parents
3. EVEN IF you could scientifically prove that a certain *race* (which exists more as a construct than in reality) has lower levels of IQ across the board, there is zero evidence to suggest there could never be improvement on a population-wide scale, and thus any discriminatory policy would not only be bad from a moral perspective, but also from a utilitarian perspective

[Ogion]

1) Biologically, there's no such thing as well-defined races, because there's too much geneflow and too much intergradation. Race is entirely a social concept, not a biological one, and the same person will be black in one place, but white in another.

2) IQ was originally designed to be a measure of educational attainment, which is what it is. Basically, it's extremely malleable through training because the human brain is extremely good at learning and development. In fact, systematic racism and environmental racism are two very good ways to drive IQs down.

these are pretty obvious points, which is why when people trot out 'racial superiority" arguments it is blindingly obvious they're motivated by racism, because their ideas hold no scientific weight at all.

[shigzeo]

also why does EVERY racist HAVE to be a WHITE supremacist?

that seems kind of bigoted guys

*tips fedora*

You've never travelled or haven't met many people have you. I know racists on three continents in six countries, and only in two of those countries are the racists white. The others are a mix of various East Asians, Caribbean black, and, other.

That is to say: racists exist in all permutations.

[Stressedlines]

also why does EVERY racist HAVE to be a WHITE supremacist?

that seems kind of bigoted guys

*tips fedora*

You've never travelled or haven't met many people have you. I know racists on three continents in six countries, and only in two of those countries are the racists white. The others are a mix of various East Asians, Caribbean black, and, other.

That is to say: racists exist in all permutations.

Don't say that. Ot.ruins the fairy tale for them.

[JamesYanik]

also why does EVERY racist HAVE to be a WHITE supremacist?

that seems kind of bigoted guys

*tips fedora*

You've never travelled or haven't met many people have you. I know racists on three continents in six countries, and only in two of those countries are the racists white. The others are a mix of various East Asians, Caribbean black, and, other.

That is to say: racists exist in all permutations.

goddamnit man that was a joke.

[CroakandDagger]

To be fair, it is getting hard to tell these days. The mainstream left has become its own satire.

[Jamiet99uk]

Whereas right-wing fucks like you are entirely sincere in your prejudices.

[CroakandDagger]

I'm not right wing.

[Ogion]

I think you've pretty much demonstrated you are. I don't even want to konw what horrible place you live where those values aren't right wing extremist.

[CroakandDagger]

Which of my political positions is right wing, Ogion?

[Ogion]

White supremacy doesn't sound so bad if non-whites are all about it.


He described (Accurately, I may add) the beliefs of black activists - in particular referencing the statements and actions of the violent thugs known as BLM -

these Black Activists do not want equal opportunities for all races: they want a privileged status for their group.

the mythical phenomenon of "Systematic White Supremacist Discrimination."

ystematic anti-white racism is enshrined in law - even lauded by far left activists. "Affirmative Action" and "Proportional Representation" are policies that actively discriminate against white people because there are no mandated quotas for the perceived-as-superior "oppressors" (aka whites) - only for "BAME" groups.

You couldn't be any more a poster child for white supremacist grievance.

[CroakandDagger]

To privilege someone because they are black is to judge them on the colour of their skin rather than the content of their character, and is thus opposed fundamentally to everything I believe.

And just so that it's said, my ancestors were Jamaican and came over to Britain for a better life. Are you absolutely certain White Supremacists would want me on their posters?

[Telamor]

I'm not Ogion and I've never seen you post anything about economics Croak but given the collection of talking points I've seen from you -Assad is a sweetie-, -Trump is anti-war-, -the left is out to get me-, -chemical attacks in Syria were a false flag operation- etc. I'm inclined to believe you're right wing. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck odds are It's a duck.

[CroakandDagger]

Assad is a sweetie. Poor guy can't catch a break.

Trump ran on an anti-war platform. Sure, he broke his word once he got elected. He's a politician. Quelle surprise.

Not sure i've ever said the left is out to get me in particular. The far left is certainly determined to tear down the fundamentally liberal societies of the West and impose their own regimes.

And there's definitely cause for suspicion on the nature of the chemical attacks in Syria.

Nothing about those positions actually makes me right wing though, does it?

[Ogion]

Nope. It's the callous indifference and disingenuous ignoring of systemic racism that marks you out as supportive of those insititutional impacts. That kind of casual support for racism is the quintessential marker of the right wing.

You're perfectly content to privilege people who are white though, and content to completely ignore how pervasive that privilege is. Attacking affirmative action is classic case of ignoring the wider context as a kind of "lalalala I can't hear you" approach to grave injustices that is the vital essence of the right wing.

[Telamor]

Like I said I've never seen you post about economics but your willingness to adopt far right talking points would either indicate a general agreement with the lines of thinking that produce them or a desire to be contrarian. I dunno which applies most to you but I get the sense at least one does.

[Ogion]

Here is a useful image to help you sort through it:

https://radicaldiscipleship.net/2017/07 ... rt-covert/

In a context where black people have faced all manner of systemic discrimination, it is pretty racist to oppose taking actions to remedy that situation. it shows a casual acceptance of that situation.

[CroakandDagger]

Ogion, I personally find it hilarious that you can sit there and accuse me - the disenfranchised descendant of jamaican immigrants - of racism on the grounds that I want to be treated the same as every other citizen of my nation. I personally find affirmative action and similar initiatives grossly offensive because the simple fact of its existence betrays the underlying assumption that "Ethnic Minorities*" cannot compete without having quotas mandated for handouts from the white man.

*(A term that's disgusting in itself, by the way)

The very fact that these initiatives are in place ensures friction because no person with an "Ethnic Background" can ever be certain that they were hired on their own merits or merely to appease this disgusting charade of proportional representation.

Black people do not need you to save them. The fact that you think they do disgusts me.

[CroakandDagger]

Like I said I've never seen you post about economics but your willingness to adopt far right talking points would either indicate a general agreement with the lines of thinking that produce them or a desire to be contrarian. I dunno which applies most to you but I get the sense at least one does.

What do you mean by far right? I am a moderate left-leaning libertarian centrist who supports free speech, universal suffrage, gay rights and freedom of religion.

I'm anti-war, skeptical of mainstream news sources, disgusted by the class of corporates who rule over us and their politician toadies - but I look at the far left in horror because they are literally locking people up for making jokes on twitter.

We live in a crazy world, and you bet if it has to come down to a fight between the "far right" and the far left i'll pick the far right every time because they at least seem to believe that everyone is entitled to their humanity and a homeland.

[Incrementalist]

Never mind.