Begun, the porn wars have

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

The UK requires adult websites to verify the age of their users. A simple "I'm 18+" box won't suffice anymore. Some sites are asking for uploaded photo ID, others for credit card verification. Some use an AI based tech that's supposed to gauge your age from a photo—a variation that at least plausibly could be anonymized if the photos are deleted after use.

The US Supreme Court recently ruled to uphold states' rights to implement strong age verification as well. Many of these tools are likely to become common in the US.

I'm very open to the idea that children accessing this content is a very serious issue—one that parents may struggle to solve in isolation. Legal online gambling where I live already utilizes such binding age gates, to reasonably good effect. VPNs and other tools can probably break through these new gates, but only for somewhat tech savvy users.

But the idea that databases linking folks' ID to their porn watching habits are being created, and that this process will be largely stewarded by the sites themselves, seems like a privacy catastrophe waiting to happen.

[CaptainFritz28]

Good on the governments for trying to reduce such content consumption by minors. Hopefully they can find a method that works without causing a major data breach.

[Jamiet99uk]

Why is the title of this thread written as if Master Yoda is worried about his Brazzers subscription?

[Jamiet99uk]

But the idea that databases linking folks' ID to their porn watching habits are being created, and that this process will be largely stewarded by the sites themselves, seems like a privacy catastrophe waiting to happen.

My concern would be that reasonably law-abiding porn sites such as PornHub and OnlyFans* will abide by these regulations and introduce some kind of age verification - but many other porn sites will not, and the UK Government will, I think, have a very hard time actually doing much about that. There's also a risk, potentially, that young people will be driven to accessing nastier content because they are unable to get into the law-abiding sites which implement age controls.

*Yes, OnlyFans, we know you also have cookery and fitness content, but everyone knows perfectly well that 95%+ of your site traffic is sexual / erotic / gooning to big tiddy goth girls / etc.

[learnedSloth]

The only way to truly protect children from harmful content is to restrict their Internet access.

[Octavious]

This has been something of an eye opener. I had no idea OnlyFans had cookery and fitness content. Jamie, you're a guide to a whole new world.

It seems strange that this battle between governments and the porn Barons (a reassuringly old fashioned term for villains) comes at a time when ai threatens to turn the industry on its head. When a tailor made online ai bot can be made to dance to whatever tune you wish (albeit with the occasional extra limb or digit) the motivation to pay extra for the exploitation of a genuine woman falls off a cliff. A fraction of the price and a fraction of the harm.

And, once the numbers of people who are involved in the industry falls far enough, both in terms of the genuine performers and people who prefer them, that's when the government can take action without fear of punishment. My bet is that we'll start seeing outright bans on human acted porn production within a decade. Holywood proper will continue their trend of reverting back to early 20th century morality for actors, with onscreen intimate content filled in by ai stunt doubles, virtual merkins etc. No more need for expensive intimacy coordinators.

[Jamiet99uk]

I believe "virtual merkins" is today's winning phrase.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

...the motivation to pay extra for the exploitation of a genuine woman falls off a cliff. A fraction of the price and a fraction of the harm.

...My bet is that we'll start seeing outright bans on human acted porn production within a decade.

This is a very interesting idea that's not circumscribed to porn.

If AI can tailormake exactly the digital content we want with high fidelity, to what extent will people accept it as a perfect substitute for the "real thing"? But maybe as the "real thing" becomes rarer it becomes more alluring? Porn seems like one area where the thought that it's "real" might matter to some users (hence the explosion of relatively expensive personalized porn and parasocial relationships via Only fans, in an age where there is practically unlimited pornographic video content for free). And maybe there are hybrid forms, AI and real, that end up having some staying power: an Only Fan actress who uses a digital filter or who responds to subs using ChatGPT is already experimenting with this.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

The only way to truly protect children from harmful content is to restrict their Internet access.

I think this is the right answer.

There really may be a government role here to try to fill the gap left by parents who aren't present, attentive, or tech savvy. But the reality is the internet will probably always be a disgusting and even dangerous place (and maybe it should be). The best harm reduction is probably just making sure a kid under like 14 doesn't have access to their own device outside a common room, such that any terrible thing they might see on a friend's phone or wherever is at least an occasional occurence.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

One concern I have is whether all this really stays limited to porn.

X has all sorts of nude content. Instagram feeds me content that gets within a hair's width of porn. The logic of these moves might also capture that adults should be ID verifying themselves more broadly across the internet, which I think is undesirable.

[Jamiet99uk]

...the motivation to pay extra for the exploitation of a genuine woman falls off a cliff. A fraction of the price and a fraction of the harm.

...My bet is that we'll start seeing outright bans on human acted porn production within a decade.

This is a very interesting idea that's not circumscribed to porn.

If AI can tailormake exactly the digital content we want with high fidelity, to what extent will people accept it as a perfect substitute for the "real thing"? But maybe as the "real thing" becomes rarer it becomes more alluring? Porn seems like one area where the thought that it's "real" might matter to some users (hence the explosion of relatively expensive personalized porn and parasocial relationships via Only fans, in an age where there is practically unlimited pornographic video content for free). And maybe there are hybrid forms, AI and real, that end up having some staying power: an Only Fan actress who uses a digital filter or who responds to subs using ChatGPT is already experimenting with this.

I think you are absolutely right about this. I know* several women who have, or have had in the past, OnlyFans accounts from which they make money. The success of OnlyFans in particular is, I believe, partly built on the idea that the user / viewer / consumer is seeing quite an intimate side of a real person. There's a lot more to that than just looking at images, and I don't think AI will replace it any time soon.

*By "know" I mean that I know them in real life, not that I have found them via OnlyFans and begun to fantasize that I really know them. Just to be clear.

[Jamiet99uk]

The only way to truly protect children from harmful content is to restrict their Internet access.

I think this is the right answer.

There really may be a government role here to try to fill the gap left by parents who aren't present, attentive, or tech savvy. But the reality is the internet will probably always be a disgusting and even dangerous place (and maybe it should be). The best harm reduction is probably just making sure a kid under like 14 doesn't have access to their own device outside a common room, such that any terrible thing they might see on a friend's phone or wherever is at least an occasional occurence.

This has to be at least part of the answer.

[Jamiet99uk]

One concern I have is whether all this really stays limited to porn.

X has all sorts of nude content. Instagram feeds me content that gets within a hair's width of porn. The logic of these moves might also capture that adults should be ID verifying themselves more broadly across the internet, which I think is undesirable.

Twittex is absolutely full of hardcore pornography and should probably fall under this regulation.

[Octavious]

I think you are absolutely right about this. I know* several women who have, or have had in the past, OnlyFans accounts from which they make money. The success of OnlyFans in particular is, I believe, partly built on the idea that the user / viewer / consumer is seeing quite an intimate side of a real person. There's a lot more to that than just looking at images, and I don't think AI will replace it any time soon.

I dare say lapdancers and strip club owners said very much the same. It's all about that intimate face to face experience that you simple can't get online or with porn... And it probably sounded very convincing an argument...

And yet over the last decade or so most of those establishments have vanished

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

...the motivation to pay extra for the exploitation of a genuine woman falls off a cliff. A fraction of the price and a fraction of the harm.

...My bet is that we'll start seeing outright bans on human acted porn production within a decade.

This is a very interesting idea that's not circumscribed to porn.

If AI can tailormake exactly the digital content we want with high fidelity, to what extent will people accept it as a perfect substitute for the "real thing"? But maybe as the "real thing" becomes rarer it becomes more alluring? Porn seems like one area where the thought that it's "real" might matter to some users (hence the explosion of relatively expensive personalized porn and parasocial relationships via Only fans, in an age where there is practically unlimited pornographic video content for free). And maybe there are hybrid forms, AI and real, that end up having some staying power: an Only Fan actress who uses a digital filter or who responds to subs using ChatGPT is already experimenting with this.

I think you are absolutely right about this. I know* several women who have, or have had in the past, OnlyFans accounts from which they make money. The success of OnlyFans in particular is, I believe, partly built on the idea that the user / viewer / consumer is seeing quite an intimate side of a real person. There's a lot more to that than just looking at images, and I don't think AI will replace it any time soon.

*By "know" I mean that I know them in real life, not that I have found them via OnlyFans and begun to fantasize that I really know them. Just to be clear.

I wonder if even the AI version of this (fake relationships, casual chatting) will be good enough, or maybe even better than what's on offer from humans on OF. I've heard of OF accounts where a hired team of people respond to the subs, who presumably don't know (or don't care to know) that it's not actually the pictured actress responding.

I think about this in the context of online games. If I found out every round of Dominion Online I played was against a bot rather than a human, would it change my enjoyment of the game? It's not like I'm chatting with my opponent much at all in those games, but I do get some sort of rush by winning or losing against a person who I impute some degree of competitiveness to.

Likewise, what if I found out that Captain Fritz had been a bot this whole time? It's interesting to think through how much I should care or whether I should think differently about the interactions I've had.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

I think you are absolutely right about this. I know* several women who have, or have had in the past, OnlyFans accounts from which they make money. The success of OnlyFans in particular is, I believe, partly built on the idea that the user / viewer / consumer is seeing quite an intimate side of a real person. There's a lot more to that than just looking at images, and I don't think AI will replace it any time soon.

I dare say lapdancers and strip club owners said very much the same. It's all about that intimate face to face experience that you simple can't get online or with porn... And it probably sounded very convincing an argument...

And yet over the last decade or so most of those establishments have vanished

From my limited experience I can say the calibre and talent available on a place like OF is much higher than what's likely to be found at your local strip club. It could be that people care less about the personal touch, but it could also be that they do still care about it but have found a cheaper way to get it, with better looking girls, and via a tool that hides from view the horde of horny dudes also leering at the performer. The general appeal of getting a boner in public (porn theaters, strip clubs) seems to be down and is definitely confusing to some people from my generation.

[Octavious]

From my limited experience I can say the calibre and talent available on a place like OF is much higher than what's likely to be found at your local strip club. It could be that people care less about the personal touch, but it could also be that they do still care about it but have found a cheaper way to get it, with better looking girls, and via a tool that hides from view the horde of horny dudes also leering at the performer. The general appeal of getting a boner in public (porn theaters, strip clubs) seems to be down and is definitely confusing to some people from my generation.

It's hard to say as there are no longer any local strip clubs. Back in the early 2000s I did visit a few, as they were the de jour entertainment for stag parties at the time and it was bizarrely briefly considered to be empowering from a feminist perspective, and whilst the experience varied somewhat it was far removed from the hordes of horny leering dudes you portrayed. As for porn theatres, I have heard of such things but don't think any existed in my lifetime. I think their appeal died with VHS.

In the nicer one I went to there was a very relaxed atmosphere and whilst the poor stag was dragged off for a private dance we had a chat with a couple of the lasses that was rather similar to the sort of thing we have here. I struggle to imagine an OnlyFans lass, presumably catering to 100s of people, being able to match that to all but a select few. Other places were rather different and demanded an early withdrawal. All of them no longer exist.

Having said that there is some appeal to even brief contact with online celebrities. I've enjoyed my short conversations with Alex Horne, Tim Key, Mark Pack, Mark Watson etc probably more than I'd care to admit