Trump v. Biden - How worried should I be?

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

I agree that Trump's behaviour following the last election was pretty dire, and the way both parties have employed armies of lawyers in preparation for this election is extremely depressing. But there have arguably been previous elections where the "losing" candidate should have made a bigger fuss, and if he had history may have been somewhat different.

This point of view really confuses me.

Elections are sometimes contestable. We should all be vigilant for error and cheating. But candidates need to relent in the face of overwhelming evidence of their loss. Trump wasn't wrong because he dared question an election outcome - rather, he remains wrong for promulgating a conspiracy theory about his "win" that, to this day, has no factual basis.

[Jamiet99uk]

I assume Octavious may be referring to the 2000 presidential election in which Al Gore lost the state of Florida by something like 350 votes and the State government in Florida made a mess of the recount.

[Octavious]

There have been a couple of others within living memory, but that's the most notable from the time I've been aware of American elections.

Regarding Trump's wrongness, I still very much suspect that he genuinely thought he'd won. It's hard to know for sure, but if his campaign team polling (which served him so well in the previous election) was telling him he was winning then this and the night's early results could easily have convinced him. Contesting the result in these circumstances is perhaps distasteful, depending on how you feel about such things, but it is also understandable

Once time had moved on and the reality of his defeat became more clear he should of course have dropped the issue. But for Trump admitting errors is far more difficult than simply pretending they never happened. Continued denial is his path of least resistance

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Regarding Trump's wrongness, I still very much suspect that he genuinely thought he'd won. It's hard to know for sure, but if his campaign team polling (which served him so well in the previous election) was telling him he was winning then this and the night's early results could easily have convinced him. Contesting the result in these circumstances is perhaps distasteful, depending on how you feel about such things, but it is also understandable

Once time had moved on and the reality of his defeat became more clear he should of course have dropped the issue. But for Trump admitting errors is far more difficult than simply pretending they never happened. Continued denial is his path of least resistance

He tried his darndest to tell everyone the election would be rigged before it even happened. He continues to lie about it 4 years later even after the evidence is crystal clear. It's so obviously a cynical a self-serving move that I'm confused why so many Americans seem to give it a pass.

Maybe you hate the Dems so much that you're fine supporting a candidate who is so selfish that he knowingly and falsely denigrates a probably fair electoral system, but there's no sense in excusing his particular lapse of judgement.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

*provably, not probably lol

[Octavious]

Regarding Trump's wrongness, I still very much suspect that he genuinely thought he'd won. It's hard to know for sure, but if his campaign team polling (which served him so well in the previous election) was telling him he was winning then this and the night's early results could easily have convinced him. Contesting the result in these circumstances is perhaps distasteful, depending on how you feel about such things, but it is also understandable

Once time had moved on and the reality of his defeat became more clear he should of course have dropped the issue. But for Trump admitting errors is far more difficult than simply pretending they never happened. Continued denial is his path of least resistance

He tried his darndest to tell everyone the election would be rigged before it even happened. He continues to lie about it 4 years later even after the evidence is crystal clear. It's so obviously a cynical a self-serving move that I'm confused why so many Americans seem to give it a pass.

Maybe you hate the Dems so much that you're fine supporting a candidate who is so selfish that he knowingly and falsely denigrates a probably fair electoral system, but there's no sense in excusing his particular lapse of judgement.

What makes you think I hate the Democrats? I find them extremely disappointing to the point that if I was a Yank I'd probably not vote for them, but I'd have been not voting Republican for a lot longer. There's not a chance in hell I'd ever vote for Trump if I had a say in the matter, but as I don't I can sit back and enjoy the show. As for whether or not it was lapse of judgement, if Trump goes on to win his strategy of denying the defeat seems less of a lapse than a solid political call.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Sorry if I got a little heated. I find it bothersome when excuses get made for Trump's 2020 behaviour, which seems very obviously wrong to me and something that should be easily condemned.

I'm also enjoying the show from Canada. Trump did very well on Rogan's podcast today. I wouldn't vote for him if I had the chance, but I can see why he's likely to win — he's a good yapper, he dodges the hard questions well, and his message is very clear.

[Octavious]

I'm about an hour in to that podcast...

You know, if a developing trend of modern politics is for candidates to be given a platform in which they have the time and freedom to flesh out their thinking without resorting to soundbites, I'm pleasantly surprised. It shouldn't be a replacement for serious journalistic interrogation, of course, but I'd be delighted if this becomes the new normal