Gove says no to Scottish Indy ref 2

[orathaic]

https://www.thejournal.ie/scottish-inde ... 6-Jun2021/

Can anyone explain to me how the rhetoric of Brexit (eg: "we provide people with the chance to make more of their lives, take control of their futures. And that's quite rightly what the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom’s focus should be.") Can possibly be squared with possibly an anti indy ref position?

If Scottish Independence is not 'taking back control', I don't know what is.

Will we see an Catalonia style unilateral referendum? And will the Tory's pro-brexit party members admit that actually taking back control is just for them?

[Jamiet99uk]

He didn't say "no".

He said "it's unlikely before 2024".

There was a Scottish independence referendum in 2014. Given the enormity of the issue, I think having a poll once every 10 years is quite bloody frequently enough, thank you.

If the Brexit result had been a narrow "Remain" vote, would you be happy if we'd carried on having a new Brexit referendum every 18 months?

[Jamiet99uk]

We don't have rule by plebiscite. Constantly holding single issue polls isn't necessarily a sensible way to govern, quite frankly.

[orathaic]

It may be the same issue but the question is very different.

First time round they were asked, 'do you want to leave the UK and as a result be forced out of the EU without option to Rejoin (as Spain holds a veto and has some issues with Catalonia)', and some people clearly voted based on that second factor (as demonstrated by the majority of Scots voting against Brexit).

Now the question is, 'do you want to leave the UK and gain the option of rejoining the EU which you were just forced out of by a majority vote in England and Wales?'

Very subtley different.

And frankly, Brexit never had any legs until Cameron decided to try and win over a few hard-core UKIP voters, if it had lost do you think there would have been any momentum for a second ref?

The situation in Scotland is fairly different.

[Jamiet99uk]

It may be the same issue but the question is very different.

First time round they were asked, 'do you want to leave the UK and as a result be forced out of the EU without option to Rejoin (as Spain holds a veto and has some issues with Catalonia)', and some people clearly voted based on that second factor (as demonstrated by the majority of Scots voting against Brexit).

No. That was not the question.

Secondly, why would Spain not veto Scottish entry to the EU now?

You are right about one thing. David Cameron was an idiot.

[orathaic]

That was the context of the question. There was no discussion of making it easy for an Independent Scotland to remain inside the EU, mainly because Spain didn't want to provide a precedent for members state breaking up but remaining inside the EU.

This is no logger an issue, because Scottish entry to the EU would be as a new (and former) member. Not an easy process, but a difficult Brexit and a (potentially) difficult Scottish Independence, followed by a relatively easy Scottish application to join the EU - where for political reasons, Spain will no longer feel any need to veto.

But yes, the question was certainly 'would you like independence, but have to leave the EU aswell' - that is no longer the question.

[Jamiet99uk]

followed by a relatively easy Scottish application to join the EU - where for political reasons, Spain will no longer feel any need to veto.

Explain to me why Spain would have objected before, but would not do so now?

[orathaic]

I already did:

Spain didn't want to provide a precedent for members state breaking up but remaining inside the EU.