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The Live League
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:49 pm
by thdfrance
Are you a fan of live webdiplomacy? There seems to be a lot of interest in playing live games, but not really a great way to coordinate regular games. I'm starting this thread to see if there is any interest in setting up a regular time (or times) for players to log on and play live games. We could do this in a casual format, but I think it could also be fun to keep track of how players perform from week to week with a leader board.
If you're interested in the idea I've put together a survey monkey to see what times are the most convenient for people (or if you think this idea is stupid please feel free to share that as well). I'll post the results in a day or two. Please note that the times listed in the survey are for EST, so please adjust for your local time zone.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/37XGDJR
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:02 am
by jmo1121109
If you can get enough interest for a specific time and date please let the moderator team know and they can probably have someone available to help check the games to ensure there are no cheaters and to help deal with problems like people missing the first turns.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:41 am
by thdfrance
hopefully we get enough people! at the moment doesn't look like we have a ton of interest
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:00 am
by ILN
My idea is to decide on a few days of the week (1-3) and then on those days decide on a set time of day for when live games will be held. This way games don't have to be planned in advance which often leads to CDs at the start, but rather players will expect games during that time. For example if we decide Saturday afternoons from 5-10pm ET, players interested in live games would log in at that time with the expectation of a game. Of course this is just one way we can go about this and there are other ways too, but I think this is the best way to eliminate annoying first turn NMRs which unbalance and ruin games
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:02 am
by ILN
O shit lol it seems that's exactly what you were thinking too based on the survey :)
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:11 am
by dipperjay
Are you looking for live press of gunboat games?
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:25 am
by Mercy
It does not seem like you can edit your answers? I just filled it in, but made a huge mistake regarding the times. I responded that I would be available at 7 pm and earlier, while in reality, I can start games at 7 am and earlier; from 12 pm to 7 am, to be precise. These times are not listed in the survey, though.
Edit: I remember having played live games that started around 12 pm with people living on the west coast of America, and live games that started later than this with other Europeans.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:11 pm
by Vom Kriege
jmo1121109, could you please provide some feedback/commentary on the below.
I appreciate your idea of having a survey for live games - I do wish there were more options in the survey to understand what people want. I actually prefer Saturday and Sunday mornings. I also would prefer a game with between 10-15 minutes for diplomacy, but only about 3 minutes for builds and retreats (for live games only) (would require a programming change). Classic map, rulebook messaging, anonymous. I'd like to see players removed immediately after their first NMR (live games only) as to not hold up the game for people that are actually playing, and permit others to fill in (would require a programming change).
Here is a new idea for live games - have the website developers program automatically generated live games with predetermined settings at predetermined times. If the games were advertised and became well known over time, it would have a very good chance of catching. The predetermined times could be, for example, every 12 hours (e.g. 7am and 7 pm daily) - I suspect that the hosts know when the popular starting times are. The settings could vary depending on popularity and demand (e.g. Mondays are 15 minute phases, Tuesdays are 10 minutes, and so forth with all of the variable settings) - and amend based on demand over time. Games should only become available to join one hour before, to prevent NMR problems. At worst, a game doesn't fill and just gets canceled.
jmo1121109, I see that you follow the discussions in the forums. Can you provide some commentary on the following:
1) Decoupling phase lengths for diplomacy and retreat/build phases;
2) Removing players immediately after the first NMR; and
3) Generating automatic live games and predetermined times with predetermined settings.
Are these workable ideas, or is there a reason to not do these things? If they are good ideas, who is the decider? Who need to be contacted? What is the process?
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 pm
by thdfrance
Vom Kriege wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:11 pm
jmo1121109, could you please provide some feedback/commentary on the below.
I appreciate your idea of having a survey for live games - I do wish there were more options in the survey to understand what people want. I actually prefer Saturday and Sunday mornings. I also would prefer a game with between 10-15 minutes for diplomacy, but only about 3 minutes for builds and retreats (for live games only) (would require a programming change). Classic map, rulebook messaging, anonymous. I'd like to see players removed immediately after their first NMR (live games only) as to not hold up the game for people that are actually playing, and permit others to fill in (would require a programming change).
Here is a new idea for live games - have the website developers program automatically generated live games with predetermined settings at predetermined times. If the games were advertised and became well known over time, it would have a very good chance of catching. The predetermined times could be, for example, every 12 hours (e.g. 7am and 7 pm daily) - I suspect that the hosts know when the popular starting times are. The settings could vary depending on popularity and demand (e.g. Mondays are 15 minute phases, Tuesdays are 10 minutes, and so forth with all of the variable settings) - and amend based on demand over time. Games should only become available to join one hour before, to prevent NMR problems. At worst, a game doesn't fill and just gets canceled.
jmo1121109, I see that you follow the discussions in the forums. Can you provide some commentary on the following:
1) Decoupling phase lengths for diplomacy and retreat/build phases;
2) Removing players immediately after the first NMR; and
3) Generating automatic live games and predetermined times with predetermined settings.
Are these workable ideas, or is there a reason to not do these things? If they are good ideas, who is the decider? Who need to be contacted? What is the process?
I’m not a developer, but most of the edits done to the site are completed via volunteer work. There isn’t really a consistent update team. Some of these seem like they would be pretty time consuming to code
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:08 pm
by thdfrance
dipperjay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:11 am
Are you looking for live press of gunboat games?
I would prefer full press personally
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:24 pm
by Mercy
Vom Kriege wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:11 pm
2) Removing players immediately after the first NMR
That one has been implemented on our sister site vDiplomacy, so though I am not a developer, I know that it is at least possible.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:33 pm
by bo_sox48
Vom Kriege wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:11 pm
1) Decoupling phase lengths for diplomacy and retreat/build phases;
2) Removing players immediately after the first NMR; and
3) Generating automatic live games and predetermined times with predetermined settings.
Are these workable ideas, or is there a reason to not do these things? If they are good ideas, who is the decider? Who need to be contacted? What is the process?
I'm not a developer, but I am closely involved in the majority of the development projects we have going on here. We should not be hijacking this thread with unrelated development discussion, so please make a new thread with these questions in the appropriate forum, send me a link to the thread by PM, and I will happily answer these questions for you.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:37 pm
by bo_sox48
thdfrance, I stuck this thread at the top of the forum in a standalone category, so it will be stuck to the top of the page not only in this forum category but across all forums.
Your survey is not loading properly for me (possibly an issue on my end but it doesn't seem to be). If other people are having that issue, maybe you would rather people answer in the thread or privately to you and keep track of the responses.
We've tried live game leagues in the past to varied success, but there is always a fair bit of interest in live games, so hopefully this one takes off.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:52 pm
by TrPrado
Though I don’t usually play these games myself, I think it’s very good to see this type of initiative being taken.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:38 pm
by Claesar
I signed up immediately, but to be honest I'm only joining Gunboats while I'm still ill. I've played FP games in the past though, and I'd like to again when I can.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:43 pm
by thdfrance
Mercy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:25 am
It does not seem like you can edit your answers? I just filled it in, but made a huge mistake regarding the times. I responded that I would be available at 7 pm and earlier, while in reality, I can start games at 7 am and earlier; from 12 pm to 7 am, to be precise. These times are not listed in the survey, though.
Edit: I remember having played live games that started around 12 pm with people living on the west coast of America, and live games that started later than this with other Europeans.
I found a response that fit the answers you listed here and was submitted around the same time as this post. I've modified the results to include the preferences you've listed here.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:47 pm
by thdfrance
To keep everyone up to date we currently have 10 responses to the survey! It's pretty clear I made a mistake not including a question about whether the games should be full press or gunboat. I have added that question into the survey. If you've already completed the survey you are able to go back and just answer the question about full press vs. gunboat games (we're on the honor system, please don't answer the other questions as well).
As it stands Saturday is the most popular with 8 responses listing that as a date they would want to play. The rest of the days are all at 2 or 3 responses per day. Based on this looking at Saturday seems to be the best option. On time however there is a less clear leading option, with responses spread pretty evenly between 4pm and 7pm. There is a concentration at 8pm, but there are an equal number of responses for 'earlier than the times listed'.
What is clear is that we have a decent amount of interest in moving forward with this idea. I am wondering how people would feel about doing two games every Saturday? One earlier in the day (say around 1pm Eastern)? And then a second game later on at 8pm. We'd consider these games to be a part of the same league, and people could participate in both the games or just one if they chose to.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:27 pm
by Mercy
How many players can start around 12 pm EST? There should be a bunch of them, but a lot of options were not included in the survey.
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:58 pm
by thdfrance
Mercy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:27 pm
How many players can start around 12 pm EST? There should be a bunch of them, but a lot of options were not included in the survey.
What makes you think so? Just that it seems like a popular time?
Re: The Live League
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:14 pm
by ILN
+1 for Sat@8pm ET