MAFIA XXXVIII: INFINITY WAR

[Jamiet99uk]

##CALL GM

When sent their role PM, does Gamora know they have a stone, or not?

[Jamiet99uk]

Just to make sure everyone gets this - the SK starts with NO killing ability. They have to get the soul stone to start being able to kill. This was clarified by Ike in the setup phase, I believe. So the SK cannot NK Gamora to get the stone, the SK has to get Gamora lynched (or if the Mafia steal the stone later, get that scum lynched). I think most people grasped this but some appeared not to.

The SK is very swingy in this game. Starts very weak but can get super-powerful later.

[Vecna]

Will also be very hard to lynch. This game is gonna need us to pile up big wagons, or the SK is just gonna add +2 to whatever wagon he wants to fuck with us and cause mass confusion/chaos

[dargorygel]

@ezio... why are you inclined to vote ChippeRock?

[Vecna]

As in, we should treat a 7-5 wagon as a tie, because the SK can do that. Its gonna be in the SK's best interest to tie the vote.

Ergo, we need big wagons.

[Foxcastle]

Worcej slipped, that much is clear, and it's unfortunate. But the best play there is not to ignore it. I was initially excited that it could be a scumslip/SK, but quickly realized that the odds were more likely that it was Town (PR or stone). Still, the point is: trying to ignore the slip and hope that no one noticed is a bad strategy that ultimately has more risks for town and while it's difficult to deal with, and there are basically no good options, we need to minimize the damage, and the only way to do that is to discuss it openly so that town is aware.

Hoping no one noticed the slip is a bad idea. For one thing, both Snowy and I noticed it immediately, and Vecna noticed it as he was catching up. So the idea that it would go unnoticed is already disproven. Scum have a strong incentive to look for any hint that could help them find a PR, and we cannot assume that the scumteam is made up of WebDip garden gnomes who are going to be so incompetent as to miss it. A strategy that relies on your opponent not noticing something is a bad strategy, and the more obvious the thing is, the worse that strategy becomes. That is one of the earliest Diplomacy lessons I learned, and I've found it true in most anything competitive. That has been the basis of my entire pursuit of the matter. No matter what, we had to assume that the scumteam was going to know it, and so Town needed to know it too.

Scum would have an incentive to not highlight it, and hope that it generally goes unnoticed, because it gives them a card to play when confusion is highest and they can use it to their advantage. Scum don't have an incentive to publicize it 43 hours before EOD, because that gives town a lot of time to deal with it and try to find a way to minimize the damage. Also, even if I'm not a star player here (especially as town), I do like to think my scumplay is pretty good (M33 MVP!), so if I were scum, I am pretty sure I would not be so dumb as to take this particular path—I'm sacrificing any strategic/tactical informational advantage I'd have and I'm drawing a lot of attention to myself for something that is very easy to paint as scummy. So the claims that me highlighting Worcej's slip is scummy don't hold. (Also, Worcej is cherrypicking my posts to find where I was "PR hunting" and not including the explanations for why I was doing what I did.)

Ways in which scum could use an unnoticed PR slip to sow confusion:

• The obvious one: if no one else seems to have noticed it, just NK the PR and watch town comb through all his posts until the forensic team finds the post and declares his death a tragic accident. If they janitor him, then we'd be even further behind because we wouldn't know we lost the doctor, and how many strategies depend on "okay, doc, you gotta protect X tonight", so I support Worcej's doc claiming.

• Throw shade on Worcej as they go along, and then at the end of a day phase "discover" the slip and produce a fake case on Worcej that attracts some votes. If they do it with minutes to go (time stone notwithstanding), town doesn't have time to go back and reread Worcej to make an informed read. Especially useful to scum if they have a wagon in contention they need to protect. Using it to force a last-minute PR claim would also help them, because those turn into confusing shitshows and usually seem to end up lynching town anyway.

Those two examples are all made worse by townies not being aware of the slip. In the first example, town probably wastes time debating the slip itself and if anyone looks like they saw it, once they find it after the NK. That's even more opportunities for scum to put suspicion on townies (e.g., "I don't believe X didn't see that, he always sees slips, he must be scum!"). In the second example, there's just not time to go back and reread and for townies to make good decisions. Their decisions will mostly be informed by what the scum have said, and scum has no better friend than a confused townie. (If it's Day 1, scum won't have been able to make all of their team aware in the mafia QT, but it only takes one to start that ball rolling, and maybe it's possible they'd save it for day 2.)

Worcej was probably going to die no matter what after his slip, because it was a big slip and scum would have noticed (it's simply wishful thinking that they wouldn't). At least if all/most of town knows as much as the scum team, we can avoid some confusion and minimize the potential damage they could do with that information advantage.

[DoubtingThomas]

vecna why are you being a bitch this game? this is very different than last game and it's alarming

[damo666]

Jamie, why can the SK not NK Gamora to get the stone?

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, why can the SK not NK Gamora to get the stone?

Ugh, I explained this. The SK does not have any NightKill power until the SK *gets* the stone. The SK cannot kill to begin with.

[Jamiet99uk]

vecna why are you being a bitch this game? this is very different than last game and it's alarming

How is Vecna being a "bitch"?

[Vecna]

vecna why are you being a bitch this game? this is very different than last game and it's alarming

Youre going to have to be more specific with what you mean, son

[DoubtingThomas]

vecna why are you being a bitch this game? this is very different than last game and it's alarming

How is Vecna being a "bitch"?

how's he not? he brags about how he's solved the game again couple pages ago

Guys I caught scum on page 1

I did it again

Look at this huuuu-i-ge overreaction

I claim all the credit and all the cooking

Town influenced lynch my bro. Without outside meddling.

Its all too late now. Were doomed. See you on day4 where ill solve the game again

stop asking pointless questions

[damo666]

Sorry Jamie, me being thick!

[Vecna]

vecna why are you being a bitch this game? this is very different than last game and it's alarming

How is Vecna being a "bitch"?

how's he not? he brags about how he's solved the game again couple pages ago

Guys I caught scum on page 1

I did it again

Look at this huuuu-i-ge overreaction

I claim all the credit and all the cooking

Town influenced lynch my bro. Without outside meddling.

Its all too late now. Were doomed. See you on day4 where ill solve the game again

stop asking pointless questions

Its ok Thomas, maybe if youre lucky ill carry you again. Just hop into my basket and ill carry you around like a momma kangaroo would do with her mini-skippy

[Vecna]

The first step of growing into a tall and strong kangaroo, with a fierce and impressive tail, is voting for Snowie

[Vecna]

I guess I shouldve used the word pouch instead of basket. Damnit vecna

[Vecna]

But on a more serious note, why do you care so much about some weird bragging where I try and annoy Chippy? Why does that make me a bitch?

Also, why does it surprise you that I was cautious last game? I had to hide my pr status. That was how it was done, and it worked out tremendously. Obviously im gonna play differently this game, no matter of my role.

[DoubtingThomas]

But on a more serious note, why do you care so much about some weird bragging where I try and annoy Chippy? Why does that make me a bitch?

Also, why does it surprise you that I was cautious last game? I had to hide my pr status. That was how it was done, and it worked out tremendously. Obviously im gonna play differently this game, no matter of my role.

why do you care if i called you a bitch?

did it offend you? if so, i am sorry

[Vecna]

Fox, why do you never engage with me? I feel like in every game we play together, you never interact with me at all. Its like we co-exist in two different games. Im calling you out. Stop writing big wall posts and have a dialogue.

The topic is peanuts. Go

[Vecna]

But on a more serious note, why do you care so much about some weird bragging where I try and annoy Chippy? Why does that make me a bitch?

Also, why does it surprise you that I was cautious last game? I had to hide my pr status. That was how it was done, and it worked out tremendously. Obviously im gonna play differently this game, no matter of my role.

why do you care if i called you a bitch?

did it offend you? if so, i am sorry

Dont avoid the questions now