MAFIA XXXVIII: INFINITY WAR

[Jamiet99uk]

Interesting that Foxcastle is following Brainbomb.

[Foxcastle]

So, there are currently three people on Dargorygel.

Ghug voted Darg on P.3 in what appears to be a meaningless joke-vote.

Xorxes joined on P.5 because Ghug encouraged him to, and openly said he didn't know what the case on Darg was.

Brainbomb posted that there was a "compelling case" on Darg and that he would only vote for Darg or ND. (Brainbomb is now voting for neither of those).

Foxcastle jumped on after Brain's comment, saying he agreed with the case on Dargorygel.

@Foxcastle: You are on a 3-person wagon alongside Ghug and Xorx whose votes were clearly joke-votes during the shitposting phase. Since you appear to be the only person with a sincere vote for Darg, would you explain to us what exactly Brainbomb's "compelling case" consisted of, and what it was that convinced you? Does it bother you that Brain is no longer pushing this case which is so compelling?

I'm no longer on Darg, but as I said, I think Xorxe's point that scum are more likely to joke about being scum is true. (I remember him saying this in previous games, maybe M33? And it struck me as a good truism then.) And so if you're going to joke about being scum as scum, you have to be careful about who you draw into it and how, because if you get lynched, you have to assume all your statements will be analyzed, so making a small investment in later confusion by saying the people on your wagon are bussing you seemed like sufficient reason to vote for Darg that early. I still think it's an okay reason, but as I said, I want to see what happens if Y2K gets some pressure.

[Foxcastle]

Interesting that Foxcastle is following Brainbomb.

Technically, my vote for Y2K is closer to OMGUS.

[Vecna]

Btw, I hope whoever has that stone that can publicly cop someone uses that shit on ND.

ND is probably the hardest to read mafia player on this website. Thats not because his scum skillset is so amazing, but just that his general behaviour is very blobby/circular.

[Vecna]

And I say that full well knowing what a pain in the ass a towncleared ND that thinks he should take leadership of town might be.

[Vecna]

so if from this point on, any of my readslists have ND as anything other than null while he hasnt been copped, im probably lying.

[worcej]

@Fox:

The fact is that, Foxcastle, whether you're town or scum, what you did was suboptimal, but it makes more sense as a rushed scum move than a rushed town move.

This encompasses a lot of what I am about to say, but pretty much bringing the slip out into the open and guaranteeing that it is all well known is definitely statistically the worst outcome for town. You are removing any chance the slip was missed by scum.

For the sake of refreshing people: my PR slip occurred because the information that VTs would not get their names was inside the sign-up thread in a massive wall of text from Ike. To think that everyone knew VTs would not get the name PM is a stretch, seeing as a couple of others were in the same boat - primarily us newer players. I am inclined to believe that more people knew that VTs didn't get a name simply because there are a lot of VTs, but they could sit on that and assume I'm good because scum would also obviously get a name PM sent to them and not immediately know that.

Back to @Fox, to eliminate the appears of 'cherry picking you', go ISO page 12 and 13 - snowy jumps on the slip first and you join in. It's pretty simple, he backs off and you press the issue. And to be clear, Squigs was the one that brought the slip into light enough to justify me to announce it, you just were dragging it out further and indirectly, which makes me think your argument that you wanted to make sure everyone knew to prevent scum advantage is horseshit.

See the quotes below:

Fox vs. Squigs:

Okay, well, I'm a VT and I don't know my name. So...

Post from the GM in the sign up thread:


*ALL players will be assigned a character (Loki, Thor, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, Ect) at the beginning of the game, not just a role. This is because some VTs have stones or other special functions and assigning a name to a player instead of just a role will be easier to keep track of. The roles of VT’s will NOT be given to them at the start, because of the potential for a D1 mass claim*

If I am to believe that your intent was to make everyone aware so that no one missed the slip, why are you doing it in such an indirect way instead of doing something like what Squigs did? Why not link that quote instead of using the 5 posts to do it? Also, your 5 posts were very methodical if you ask me, and I'll get into them below. All you did was tighten a noose around my neck and let me flail into hanging myself - which would be a great scum way to get a PR imo

First quote - which came close to after snowy pointed my initial slip out:

So, Worcej, who are you?

Second quote - Dragging the situation out after snowy backed off. Also this quote is you explaining the context of the situation more without announcing anything hard, just continuing the dialogue:

Yeah, like Snowy says, if you're a VT, you wouldn't be automatically under the impression that VTs know their name, because you would have gotten a generic PM...

So you're either a PR, or you're scum, or you're the SK.

Third quote - still 'hunting' me:

Worcej, you're claiming that you're a VT, and you're claiming that you know your name?

Fourth quote - the 'noose' if you will:

Okay, well, I'm a VT and I don't know my name. So...

Fifth quote - sealing the deal and an attempt to push it back at me:

So, yeah, Worcej, I'm not PR hunting, you slipped up.

I honestly believe that if I would've backed off and just claimed PR, you would've been positioning to lynch me and frame it as there was more likely a chance I am scum. It's a pretty good strategy, I must admit: you can angle-shoot this as you playing town and try to sell it as 'optimum' to out me, which it isn't based on simple statistics (slim odds is better than 0% odds). Or, I can try to hide the exact PR and you can send me up implying that I am scum because I didn't admit the role. You can try to sell both as you being town. But since people are labeling you a good player, even yourself, I am more inclined to think there was malicious intent behind all of this and not 'town helping' intent.

[worcej]

Thats all nice and dandy, but I would still like to have a unanimous snowie wagon.

We gotta score some nice first this game, and that would be a quite epic way to do it.

22 votes on snowie where even his teammates and he himself are bussing his ass.

I originally looked at snowy and thought 'he at least backed off' as a saving grace, but seeing the DT attempt (another new player), I am willing to join in the wagon and ##vote snowy. I still strongly think Fox is full of shit, but both of them have done the most scummie things this game so either wagon works for me.

[Foxcastle]

There is no chance that scum did not see your slip. Predicating a strategy on hoping that scum didn't see it is foolish. If had been a minor townslip, maybe there's a chance they would have missed it, but something like that? Nah, the damage was done when you posted it, and town sticking it's head in the stand would have given an advantage to scum.

Talk about "optimal" and "suboptimal" play is nonsense. Yes, there are good plays and bad plays, but part of the point of limited information games is that they can't be pareto-optimized. I think it was suboptimal for town to risk proceeding with a significant portion of the game unaware of something that mafia almost certainly knows. It would only lead to confusion when mafia need it most.

Name for me a team of 4 people that you think would totally miss a slip of that magnitude. Preferably include an experienced player, because statistically it's likely that there's at least one on the scum team, but if you want to pretend that the RNG assigned us the dumbest scumteam, I'm curious to see who you think that is.

[Foxcastle]

Worcej, do you honestly think I would be this blatant about this if I were scum?

Actually, anyone voting me, I'd be interested to hear your answer.

[brainbomb]

Xorxes is gonna solve the game for us by tomorrow, so I'm not too worried about anything. The more complicated the game the better he is, and therefore the more obvious he is.

Xorxes attracts a lot of attention because he's simply the best player on the site by far. His scumhunting is legendary and his scum play is terrible so I'm not particularly concerned with him unless he's discussed as a potential lynch which should never happen

Ghug is important because he's solid as town and excellent as scum.

Bismark the most important players in this game are Xorxes and Ghug. If HR continues to Lurk he will remain useless and unimpactful

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... thstronaut


Seriously this is red flag level douchebaggin here ezio

[brainbomb]

Xorxes please dont be a complete bitch and let someone blatantly try to lick your asshole like this.

[brainbomb]

Its one thing to sing a players praises for in game accomplishments. This is just horrendous buddying of established players.

[Jamiet99uk]

Xorxes is gonna solve the game for us by tomorrow, so I'm not too worried about anything. The more complicated the game the better he is, and therefore the more obvious he is.

Xorxes attracts a lot of attention because he's simply the best player on the site by far. His scumhunting is legendary and his scum play is terrible so I'm not particularly concerned with him unless he's discussed as a potential lynch which should never happen

Ghug is important because he's solid as town and excellent as scum.

Bismark the most important players in this game are Xorxes and Ghug. If HR continues to Lurk he will remain useless and unimpactful

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... thstronaut

Why have you removed the name of the person you are quoting?

Seriously this is red flag level douchebaggin here ezio

[Jamiet99uk]

Xorxes is gonna solve the game for us by tomorrow, so I'm not too worried about anything. The more complicated the game the better he is, and therefore the more obvious he is.

Xorxes attracts a lot of attention because he's simply the best player on the site by far. His scumhunting is legendary and his scum play is terrible so I'm not particularly concerned with him unless he's discussed as a potential lynch which should never happen

Ghug is important because he's solid as town and excellent as scum.

Bismark the most important players in this game are Xorxes and Ghug. If HR continues to Lurk he will remain useless and unimpactful

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... thstronaut

Why have you removed the name of the person you are quoting?

Seriously this is red flag level douchebaggin here ezio

LOL ignore me, I can see you're quoting Ezio. I should read more carefully.

[Jamiet99uk]

Brainbomb is right anyway, Ezio's tongue is so far up Xorxes' rim, it's disgusting.

[worcej]

There is no chance that scum did not see your slip. Predicating a strategy on hoping that scum didn't see it is foolish. If had been a minor townslip, maybe there's a chance they would have missed it, but something like that? Nah, the damage was done when you posted it, and town sticking it's head in the stand would have given an advantage to scum.

Talk about "optimal" and "suboptimal" play is nonsense. Yes, there are good plays and bad plays, but part of the point of limited information games is that they can't be pareto-optimized. I think it was suboptimal for town to risk proceeding with a significant portion of the game unaware of something that mafia almost certainly knows. It would only lead to confusion when mafia need it most.

Name for me a team of 4 people that you think would totally miss a slip of that magnitude. Preferably include an experienced player, because statistically it's likely that there's at least one on the scum team, but if you want to pretend that the RNG assigned us the dumbest scumteam, I'm curious to see who you think that is.

1. You're incorrect to assume that there was 0% chance that it was not seen. And you're wrong if you think you hounding after it wasn't PR hunting - which I have been accused of in both my previous games and then labeled as 'really scummy' for doing it.
2. You did nothing to actually force me to claim other than have me drag it out - if you REALLY knew it was a slip, why be indirect when typically you have so far shown you're a direct communicator? So take out the 'optimal vs suboptimal' - by just dancing around it and dragging it out for 5 posts, how was that bringing the issue to light? Squigs did it in ONE POST by showing the information I missed. Your method was very intentional to be able to be spun either way.
3. I can't name a team, but I believe that Flash, DT, damo, and Bismark didn't catch it based on their posts, and that's 4 people - are they 'the scum team' - most likely not, but there is no way you can definitively say they are not the scum team at this point. That's the biggest problem with what you did, you decided to remove any chance from the situation.

[brainbomb]

Whilst I even agree xorxes is town its more tone based than accomplishment based. Ghug beimg town is absolutely not a certainty anymore and if ghug flips scum I think ezio should be thrown into a lava incinerator Silde family reunion

[Jamiet99uk]

Worcej would you like to do something other than tunnelling Foxcastle? I think you've made your point.

[worcej]

Worcej, do you honestly think I would be this blatant about this if I were scum?

Actually, anyone voting me, I'd be interested to hear your answer.

I already addressed this, but to repeat: I do think you were blatant because how you did it left the door open to be spun based on how I responded. If I hid and denied, you can claim me scum and lynch. By ensuring it's in the open, you can try to now say 'look at me, I am VT, why would I possibly be scum to point this out?' to get town-cred and be town-read by people (which has worked on some)