MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[teacher2]

Why is everyone assuming that mr traitor would flip his actual reads around 100%? That is like the dumbest thing you could do lol

Who assumed that? I said his readslists were not accurate, but had to be partially so, so to determine which was which look at his actions.

[Foxcastle]

Fox recently came on a bit strong trying to defend teacher. I noted this interaction and as a result fox can be out of my towncore. He also disappeared aftet stating his defense of teacher.

Sorry, did not mean to disappear, it was late and I was winding down for the night.

My theory was that if Teacher and DrCJG were both scum, and because they have this strong interplay across games, it may have been possible for them to identify eachother as scum. The ultimate mutual meta-read, if you will. And that DrCJG's visit was to confirm that and identify his teammate. Which makes sense if his townread of teacher was a decoy (likely); but doesn't really make sense if his townread of teacher was real (but, they can't all be fake...).

It occurs to me that the traitor probably does want to visit his potential scummates. If the target is scum, they can confirm themselves to the traitor by not claiming the visit. So I was thinking about the traitor's goals incorrectly, and it seems likely now that DrCJG did think Teacher was scum.

The problem with all this is that none of it actually implicates Teacher. The most we can draw out of it is that DrCJG thought Teacher was scum (which is worth knowing). I skimmed them in duo, and I didn't see anything that made me think that they had some secret understanding that wasn't also better explained by them being buddy-buddy.

I still do not like Teacher's EOD1 and his willingness to lynch thedipplayer (a low information lynch), so don't misinterpret my lack of full indictment of him on the DrCJG traitor connection as a defense of him in general.

[Vecna]

Why is everyone assuming that mr traitor would flip his actual reads around 100%? That is like the dumbest thing you could do lol

Who assumed that? I said his readslists were not accurate, but had to be partially so, so to determine which was which look at his actions.

Everyone is attaching a lot of value and is making odd arguments around it (imo).

[Jamiet99uk]

Ok hang on a minute though.

Every time the Traitor visits, he is putting himself at huge risk, because there are only *two* ways in which you can get the PM which that generates at EoN.

1. The Mafia attempted to kill you and Janitor you body, and failed, or:
2. You were visited by the Traitor.

If he picks a Town target for his Traitor visit, on a night when it appears very likely that the Mafia got their kill through on a different Townie, that means there's a very high likelihood that the Traitor will be exposed, and thereafter quickly lynched.

Don't you think?

[Foxcastle]

Why is everyone assuming that mr traitor would flip his actual reads around 100%? That is like the dumbest thing you could do lol

Who assumed that? I said his readslists were not accurate, but had to be partially so, so to determine which was which look at his actions.

Everyone is attaching a lot of value and is making odd arguments around it (imo).

It is kinda an odd situation, though, as opposed to rereading scum who knew their team. If he knew his team, we'd be looking for a mix of deception and true reads. But he didn't, so we have to guess at what he had guessed...

[teacher2]

Ok hang on a minute though.

Every time the Traitor visits, he is putting himself at huge risk, because there are only *two* ways in which you can get the PM which that generates at EoN.

1. The Mafia attempted to kill you and Janitor you body, and failed, or:
2. You were visited by the Traitor.

If he picks a Town target for his Traitor visit, on a night when it appears very likely that the Mafia got their kill through on a different Townie, that means there's a very high likelihood that the Traitor will be exposed, and thereafter quickly lynched.

Don't you think?

1. I was not told WHO visited me. I was told I was visited and nothing happened, as described in the rules. The only reason I knew it was Dr was because of the flip.

2. So the only way the traitor could be exposed is by the tracker. And the tracker, on seeing a visit without a death, could think it was the doctor/JOAT and so shouldnt out it, at least until RB claims.

3. I think traitor does want to visit scum, but the odds of that are fairly low N1 (3/17), so better to pure cop a leading player and decide whether to push with or against them.

[Foxcastle]

Ok hang on a minute though.

Every time the Traitor visits, he is putting himself at huge risk, because there are only *two* ways in which you can get the PM which that generates at EoN.

1. The Mafia attempted to kill you and Janitor you body, and failed, or:
2. You were visited by the Traitor.

If he picks a Town target for his Traitor visit, on a night when it appears very likely that the Mafia got their kill through on a different Townie, that means there's a very high likelihood that the Traitor will be exposed, and thereafter quickly lynched.

Don't you think?

How does this work? How does town identify the traitor through that?

[teacher2]

##unvote.

[rdrivera2005]

First of all, sorry for being less engaged on this game than my usual low level of posting. I can line some excuses, but it's not really important. I will try to improve during the week, but I have to work, so I will not make promises.

My two top scumreads at this point are Fox and Worcej and Brain to Sk.

Fox because I really disliked his logic on D1, voting for lurkers after saying it won´t work anyway, it look like a cheap way to justify a vote and then ended the day on Yav. Also his defense of Teacher is weird. Hard to see a scum defending another scum so openly, but could be scum trying to buddy a town.

About the worcej, the impression he gave me on D1 was he was just sheeping the majority and hedging about it. His post after the flip is also scummy. And having his only solid scum lean on Peter after voting on webdip is another thing that didn't fit well to me.

I will give worcej the benefit of being newbie and ##vote Foxcastle

@Fox - Why are you so openly defending Teacher?

@Worcej - You have Peter as your most solid scumread, you said you jumped out of him into thedipplayer to avoid a tie, but why you want to avoid a tie with half an hour to EOD?

[Foxcastle]

@Fox - Why are you so openly defending Teacher?

I am not defending Teacher, I am simply saying that I cannot prove he and DrCJG had a secret parapsychic connection that proves Teacher is scum.

Also, you should really re-read my Day 1. I was not advocating lynching lurkers just because, I was advocating lynching no-shows that the mods said would be mod-killed anyway, and I was acknowledging that I'm in the minority of players who think that plan (or No-Lynch Day One) is an acceptable plan.

[Jamiet99uk]

Ok hang on a minute though.

Every time the Traitor visits, he is putting himself at huge risk, because there are only *two* ways in which you can get the PM which that generates at EoN.

1. The Mafia attempted to kill you and Janitor you body, and failed, or:
2. You were visited by the Traitor.

If he picks a Town target for his Traitor visit, on a night when it appears very likely that the Mafia got their kill through on a different Townie, that means there's a very high likelihood that the Traitor will be exposed, and thereafter quickly lynched.

Don't you think?

How does this work? How does town identify the traitor through that?

Because Teacher2 was also suggesting that DrCJG softed who he was going to visit (i.e. Teacher).

[Jamiet99uk]

##Unend

[teacher2]

Ok hang on a minute though.

Every time the Traitor visits, he is putting himself at huge risk, because there are only *two* ways in which you can get the PM which that generates at EoN.

1. The Mafia attempted to kill you and Janitor you body, and failed, or:
2. You were visited by the Traitor.

If he picks a Town target for his Traitor visit, on a night when it appears very likely that the Mafia got their kill through on a different Townie, that means there's a very high likelihood that the Traitor will be exposed, and thereafter quickly lynched.

Don't you think?

How does this work? How does town identify the traitor through that?

Because Teacher2 was also suggesting that DrCJG softed who he was going to visit (i.e. Teacher).

But a soft -- "reread overnight" -- that is only discernable knowing both his role and who he visited. I certainly didnt notice it real time, and wouldnt have after the fact without both those pieces of information.

[brainbomb]

Rivera how can I ever actually be sk. Lol

[rdrivera2005]

I confess didn't thought much about the traitor until now.
I would assume he was trying to find a fellow scum as it's the best way to avoid a NK later on the game. Can't see any other stronger motivation, this "cop" suggestion of Teacher is nonsense.

[teacher2]

I would assume he was trying to find a fellow scum as it's the best way to avoid a NK later on the game.

???

How does finding a scum help traitor avoid an NK?

[Jamiet99uk]

How does this work? How does town identify the traitor through that?

Because Teacher2 was also suggesting that DrCJG softed who he was going to visit (i.e. Teacher).

But a soft -- "reread overnight" -- that is only discernable knowing both his role and who he visited. I certainly didnt notice it real time, and wouldnt have after the fact without both those pieces of information.

Hmm ok maybe I was reading too much into that.

[rdrivera2005]

Rivera how can I ever actually be sk. Lol

I think you are one of the few people able to claim SK actually being SK. And it will explain why you were so upset at start as you can't win as SK (you will end lynched one way or another). But I am not hunting the SK, until now he has been the best town player if he really shot DrCJG.

[Jamiet99uk]

I would assume he was trying to find a fellow scum as it's the best way to avoid a NK later on the game.

???

How does finding a scum help traitor avoid an NK?

Well, because if the Scumteam see him enthusiastically joining Town lynches being pushed by the identified fellow scum, they may at least regard him as a usefully stupid townie even if they don't work out he's scum.

[rdrivera2005]

I would assume he was trying to find a fellow scum as it's the best way to avoid a NK later on the game.

???

How does finding a scum help traitor avoid an NK?

In this case the scum visited didn't get a message telling who visited him?