MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

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yavuzovic
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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#901 Post by yavuzovic » Sat May 12, 2018 7:18 am

Quote is from peterbot so that's why there's no link to jump to post)
teacher:
As stated above, its because I found your EoD1 bad and asking for crumbs bad. OMGUS scumread me all you want. Id rather you try to town yourself by putting in effort at gamesolving, because that is how to deal with suspicions as town. OMGUS is how to deal with suspicions as scum, to make others afraid of scumming you.
I won't answer. You know why I couldn't put in effort to game.

And I started to not believe lke, he's offensive and active. I do not believe he's PR.
##vote RagingIke297
I also agree with people who suggest us not to lynch Ezio. He could really be a scum but I think we should deal with more active ones first.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#902 Post by peterlund » Sat May 12, 2018 8:19 am

teacher2 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:04 am
That is why I unvoted first, to analyze the board (the bot didnt catch it), and went to Bozo after as my hardest scumread since I did town Ike.
Bot did not catch your "##Vote: No-Lynch." Day-1 01:07 page 23 because you added a ":" after "Vote". Stressed insists on adding a space into the "## vote" making the bot not picking up his votes. Read the Role PM info and you see that the correct notation is:

Code: Select all

@@VOTE <player>
@@UNVOTE
@@VOTE NO-LYNCH
(Replace "@@" with "##")

Please read the player voting instruction on: http://mafia.peterlund.se/PlayerVoting.html

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#903 Post by peterlund » Sat May 12, 2018 8:33 am

RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:25 am
4. Yavuzovic (+-0) - He's still not Yav, I said it before but he doesn't have the conviction I remember him having in games past. I get that he may be busy,
RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:25 am
17. Jamiet99uk (+3) – Overall town vibes from Jamie. He is much less emotional this game, not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.
I generally get scared when Jamie is not the usual angry Jamie being all over the place. The cool calculating Jamie is scum Jamie according to my experience.

The same meta logic I suspect can be applied also to Yav. It may be so that scum Yav is cautious because he is afraid of scum slipping.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#904 Post by peterlund » Sat May 12, 2018 8:44 am

RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 2:17 am
No one seems to care that that's the way it is and are all encouraging me to vote despite that, so I'll vote.
The RULES set up by the GM says that you must vote. So vote regardless of what others say!

I think you have to vote and I would not be happy if the GM gave you an exemption on this. The question itself "Should I vote?", I also read as scummish, not daring to take a stance and do you bit in the game.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#905 Post by peterlund » Sat May 12, 2018 8:48 am

teacher2 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 2:18 am
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:29 am
When you say that you think I misrepresent you, are you thinking that I'm doing something sinister here?
I need the board to check me, because Im not a good judge of the clarity of my own writing, but yes I thought your opening post was both unfair and sinister.
Scum Balki behaviour in a nutshell...

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#906 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:08 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:29 pm
@Telamor

Your initial Prado/Paedo post was an error, I get that, but now I think you're being slightly offensive. I'm sure TrPrado is not a paedophile and it's not funny to imply otherwise.
You're probably right, sorry Prado I got caught up in te fun of alliterative hashtags. And cheers for calling me out on it Jamie.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#907 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:12 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:42 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:52 pm


This is my 81st post, and I am the fourth most prolific poster in the game.
Quantity is not quality. Just saying...
Fair comment, and if he wishes to attack the *substance* of my posts, I am willing to hear what he has to say. But to suggest I haven't said much is simply wrong.
Honestly it's probably less an issue with your content and more with your format. I've an essay due in a few days I don't have the time to pour over PeterBot so a lot of my thoughts are based on what I've seen recently. The fact you tend to respond in a series of shorter messages rather than in one large post probably means your posts don't register in my memory as much.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#908 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:21 am

RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:25 am

Lynch

3. Telamor (-4) - Day 2, Page 35. I am not shy retiring violet by nature at this point he has made 5 posts, I get he's new but that level of activity seems like the amount a shy retiring violet would do. His timing on his posts seems off and seems to know more than what he lets on sometimes. Pg. 38 and 42. Respectively I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Surely a night 1 kill would be ideal against a PR(Power Role?) as it'd dispose of you before you had a potential chance to copscan and start leaving clues for town to follow after you're dead.I'm confused. If Ike has claimed a PR but for some reason the Maf didn't either kill or RB him why are we lynching Snowy?


If you could provide some examples of my seeming to know more than I let on I'd be happy to explain how I reached that point through sheer ignorance. In terms of my timing I'm hopping on when I have the time and inclination any correlation between this and significant moments in game are purely coincidental. Also if you wouldn't mind explaining why it males sense for the Maf to neither roadblock or Kill you after a PR claim I'd be happy to change my mind.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#909 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:30 am

teacher2 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 2:33 am
Telamor wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:14 pm
absolve himself through flagellance
Im a language nerd and curious - is this a common UK form? Were you making a flatulence joke? (kudos). Are you non-native speaker?

Im against lynching newbies early, and Im not going to you as the first newby (hi Stressed ;) ). Im happy to try to explain any of my short-forms I use or the theories behind them. Id just love to see more of you (and Stressed - if you agree with a theory only one person is backing, it really helps to join the chorus. Mafia can ensure they are echoed if needed. Town needs help.

That said, I generally come online, read, react, and post those reactions for what they are worth. Its doing the reads lists that forces the reevaluation and deeper thinking. So my guess is that I am a mix of quality.
Flagellance was is a bastadisation of Flagellation that I produced rather than type out Self-flagellating in full. Calling someone Self-flagellating is pretty common in my experience although it might be worth calling on Jamie to verify if it's a national thing. As for translating shorthand that'd be very helpful, the ones I want to confirm at the minute are:

VT - Vanilla Townie
PR - Power Role
EoN/EoD - End of Night/Day
OMGUS - I can't even guess at that one tbh.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#910 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 12, 2018 11:42 am

TrPrado wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:22 am
Jamie: You've been pretty consistent in your push on peter, what aside from about his having logic you disagree with is inherently scummy? What prior to his push on Balki really stood out to you about him?

@@VOTE JAMIE
Not only everything he's said but also for buying into snowy's ridiculous joke about Ike's post saying he isn't retracting his PR claim being awkward, and also being entirely unable to explain why he was on the Ezio wagon. Can't really claim you're a properly prolific poster if you can't make a post explaining why you think someone should be lynched.
Are you dense? I think it was very clear my vote on Ezio was a pressure vote. You should know perfectly well by now that I dislike non-participation and will often pressure people who don't take part - and you will note that when Ezio appeared, and began to participate, I took my vote off him.

What was "ridiculous" about Snowy's observation? I believe Snowy was making a sincere comment and not a joke at all. It was an observation in a similar vein to the points Balki has been making, about RagingIke coming across as someone pretending to be town, rather than someone acting with the conviction that he *is* town. Words mean things - and the words we choose can reveal things about our thoughts, both conscious and subconscious. That observation was the one potentially insightful thing Snowy has contributed this whole game. Why are you so sure he was joking?

With regard to Peterlund I have explained my suspicion of him. During D1 he was frequently present, and he posted quite a few times, but those posts were completely lacking in substance, and were mostly questions or statements about his Bot program or issues of game mechanics and Mafia nomenclature of trifling unimportance - plus that post where he claimed not to know what basic terms like "NAI" meant despite having played many times and observed several other games.

All of this added up to give me the impression of Peter trying to appear involved on D1 without actually saying anything.

Then there was his OMGUS vote on me on P.22.

Now he's zealously pushing this case on Balki which as I have observed is based on very weak foundations, including crucially an assumption about what Xorxes was going to say about Balki in the future (which of course is nonsense).

I hope this is of assistance.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#911 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 12, 2018 11:44 am

@Telamor:

Yes, "flagellation" and "self-flagellation" are pretty normal words that I think most Brits, certainly, would understand.

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God U Suck" and basically describes what happens when you suspect someone, and they explode in a fit of rage and vote for you, just because you suspected them. Like Peterlund did when he voted me on Page 22, where his only reason for voting me was the fact that I suspected him.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#912 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:46 am

RagingIke297 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 5:01 am
@telamor, why are you voting for Ezio right now?
In all honesty out of pettiness. Ezio voted for me so I voted back. It gave me a reason to vote for someone even if not a very constructive one. If I was voting to advance town interests I would vote for you. The sooner we can open up Schrodinger's Ike the sooner we can crack on in my opinion. The Scum already know if yo u're town or not and will be acting on the basis of that knowledge as long as we don't have it we're a step behind them. That said there doesn't seem to be much support for my view so I assume it isn't as simple as it appears to be to me.
I know that there's a general push against Snowy which I assume is because he's lurking? I'm not certain if throwing my vote on that bandwagon would be helpful though. In which case I guess StressedLines makes the most sense if I'm looking to motivate people to engage more?

##vote StressedLines

Sorry for the stream of consciousness post.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#913 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:47 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:44 am
@Telamor:

Yes, "flagellation" and "self-flagellation" are pretty normal words that I think most Brits, certainly, would understand.

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God U Suck" and basically describes what happens when you suspect someone, and they explode in a fit of rage and vote for you, just because you suspected them. Like Peterlund did when he voted me on Page 22, where his only reason for voting me was the fact that I suspected him.
In which case my vote for Ezio was an OMGUS vote. But I've hopefully corrected that to a more useful vote now. Cheers Jamie.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#914 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 12, 2018 11:51 am

Other Mafia shorthand terms include:

AI = Alignment Indicative
FG = Fuck Ghug
NAI = Not Alignment Indicative / Non-Alignment Indicative
RVS = Random Voting Phase
ISO = ISOlation - re-reading one players posts in isolation
WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me

Also:
MyLo = Mislych and Lose - a stage late in the game where if town mis-lynches, they will almost certainly lose
LyLo = Lynch or Lose - a stage late in the game where if town does not successfully lynch scum, they will lose.

- The difference between LyLo and MyLo is that at MyLo, town does not auto-lose if there is a tied vote (or a no-lynch for other reasons) whereas at LyLo, lynching scum is essential.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#915 Post by Telamor » Sat May 12, 2018 11:56 am

@Jamie
You headed my next post off at the pass there, cheers!

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#916 Post by DrCJG » Sat May 12, 2018 12:02 pm

I still believe Ezio needs to become more active and I would be ok with lynching any of Ezio, Stressedlines, and Chaqa because I feel like by not contributing they are hurting towns processing power as well as limiting our ability to look back at statements by them to clear them or identify them as mafia once more information is obtained.

But, Ezio has posted (a whole 138 words) and it seems like believable reads (though it feels based on very near-time message). Therefore, I am going to switch my vote of Ezio for now. But, I urge him to become more active and to actually come back and “town clear more people” (page 43).

Yav started fairly active, with what I felt like was an interest in questioning and analyzing, but by the end of D1 that was gone.

(Page 16) Yav unvoted Ghug (even though he indicated he would still lynch Ghug) claiming he would vote for Ezio because he found voting no-lynch scummy

(Page 18) Yav claimed no one was scummy enough to lynch and voted no-lynch even though nothing had changed regarding Ezio and Ghug was actively leading a push on Ike (and supporting other wagons)

(Page 25) Yav returns at EoD with 37 mins left and decides to keep a no-lynch vote. At the time the wagons included Ike, Bozo, and Peter. Obviously Bozo was town, I still have Peter as likely townlean, and it is possible that Ike is town (meaning scum Yav would have had no reason to join any of the town v. town v. town votes and decided to avoid drawing any heat, whereas town Yav). NOTE: it does make me believe Yav and Ike are not both scum as Yav could have had plenty of opportunity to join the Bozo (or Peter) wagons. Still, flipping Yav could provide some insight here.
Largely dodged my questions N1, though he may have been busy IRL… but then provided this strange post:
yavuzovic wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:03 pm
While reading the thread Balki's RB claim sounded very scummy. But after a few pages my guts started to say he is town. I don't think a mafia could be brave enough to do that - unless they RB Xorxes, wow I realise that now.

Can I take the list of the players who have claimed they are PR?
(Page 41) I found it odd that Yav got upset with Teacher prodding him to be more active then turned around and joined my vote on Ezio to be more active.

(Page 46) He then went on to vote for Ike because he is “offensive and active” as well as because Yav believes he is not PR … A strange vote to me.

I feel like town Yav has to know that there is no reason to be lynching Ike early. As I have said before, he is neutralized. If Ike is a PR we let him use it for a while so that he can provide us with information (or doctor saves). If Ike is VT, then fuck him for doing this but hopefully he is covering real PRs. If Ike is Scum, then he is very limited in the damage he can inflict.

Whereas scum Yav could have a series of reasons to place a vote on Ike depending on if Ike is actually scum including trying to lynch a VT/PR (if Ike is town) or distance himself from a scum buddy.

##Vote Yavuzovic

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#917 Post by DrCJG » Sat May 12, 2018 12:04 pm

Now I believe there were some questions posed to me about my bozo vote and Ezio vote... having finished reading, I will go back, find them, and answer now.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#918 Post by DrCJG » Sat May 12, 2018 12:41 pm

teacher2 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:29 pm
Actually, the assumption of dual scum driven wagons does make it interesting. I had scummed several on the Ike wagon, but not anyone outside snowy on the pre-pr claim Bozo wagon. It makes me want to reread the Ds closer. And others should maybe read me closer too.

@DrCJG, @dargorygel: Why Bozo in particular?
Bozo posted twice before in the first 46.5 hours of D1.

(Page 21) Reedeer calls Bozo out for not being involved as a way to not draw pressure.

(Page 22) Bozo appears and "states peterlund's scum read of RagingIke was convenient after RagingIke gave him a second vote. @@VOTE peterlund" a vote that moved took Ike from lead wagon to a tie with Peter (Note: at the time (and still now) I have been confused by the desire to lynch Peter). It felt very opportunistic (especially in light of Reedeer's post) and came across very scummy

I was in the middle of moving off Bozo when an exchange with teacher made it look (particularly in the heat of EoD) like Bozo had indeed just appeared to vote on a wagon (potentially to save Ike) when he hadn't read fully... so I placed a vote on him.

I became less convinced of the Ike wagon and felt like Bozo just kept digging a hole (which in retrospec I see was just him scrambling)...
"why would I want to vote for someone I did not think could get lynched" (With 54 mins left this felt particularly forced)

Switching from Peter to Ike and claiming he did not have a particularly strong opinion of Ike but preferred him over Peter (who he had just voted for) continued to seem opportunistic and scummy.

By the time he responded to Balki's questions of why he was voting with "Sorry, I do not have a lot of detail to give." I was content with keeping my vote on him.

RIP Bozo

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#919 Post by peterlund » Sat May 12, 2018 1:01 pm

TrPrado wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:22 am
peter: Why would scum Balki be so blatant in claiming an RB that was holstered when it was pretty obvious people's eyebrows would be raised?
Yes, I guess they expected eyebrows to be raised, but I also think that they, after an initial reaction of surprise that Balki claimed RBed un-CCed, expected Balki to be generally considered "semi town cleared", and when I read the first 4-5 hours of D2, I think I saw this was happening too.

And by the way, I believe the RB was used against Xorxes. It was not holstered.

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Re: MAFIA XXXVI: ODDJOB'S REVENGE

#920 Post by DrCJG » Sat May 12, 2018 1:05 pm

TrPrado wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:22 am

DrCJG, ghug, yavuz, Telamor, and also Jamie: So this is (or was) just a pressure to get him to participate more? Can I hear a bit of clear thoughts of what each of you thought about his behavior at the end of Day 1? Can I hear why you think voting for lurkers is valuable after we've already moved onto D2? Or why Ezio is the one you feel (or felt) should be pressured?
My vote on Ezio was two part: 1) I wanted to pressure him as well as Chaqa and Stressedlines to contribute; 2) I have had Ezio in my scumlean category because his limited messages have not seemed productive (note they also do not provide useful information, which as I highlight below is why i am ok voting lurkers)

I do feel like voting for lurkers is valid and I am not sure why D2 would make a difference. My understanding of how we can win is by either 1) Luck; 2) by being able to identify (or educatedly guess) mafia members; or 3) Allow our PR to identify and lead us to lynching mafia.

I want mafia members to be active because some of the more concrete pieces of information we can obtain include catching a mafia member making a statement one way and then acting another in order (as we may discover later) to save a teammate.

Furthermore, townies need to be active 1) to help hide PRs as they help steer; 2) to provide processing power; and 3) to provide support for guessing they are town based on not behaving like mafia... I understand this leads to WIFOM, but over time it becomes more reliable information.

That said, if we have a stronger opinion about someone else I want to make that vote instead, which is why I have switched my vote.

@ TrPrado, why should we not be voting lurkers? and why would D2 make a difference?

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