webdiplomacy.net

To investigate whether the Tragedy of the Commons occurs among Diplomacy players, I have prepared the following social experiment/forum game:

You are fishermen. You share a common resource, a pond that you fish in. By working together and moderating your fishing, the fish population will grow and you will all prosper. But greed is always an option...

The game occurs in rounds.
Each round, you choose an amount of fish to fish from the pond. This amount is sent via a private method (webDip PM or discord); nobody knows how much fish anyone else fished during a particular round.
At the end of each round, after the fish fished are subtracted from the amount of fish in the pond, the number of fish increases by an amount roughly 1 per 2 fish already in the pond.

Certain details, like the starting amount of fish and a scoring system, as well as a system of player abilities and events, are not yet fully fleshed out. There will be an incentive to lie and claim you fished less fish than you did, ways the players can punish whoever they think overfished, and a thread for discussing who may or may not have "overfished". I'd like to first poll interest, though, so as to avoid writing rules designed for a smaller or larger group, and also so any major flaws in the concept can be revised.

This thread is for questions, sign ups, and rules clarifications. A separate thread will be created for in-game info, in-game discussion, and roleplaying.

I have a problem with not wanting to make people feel worse, so I usually end up being over trusting, and an awful liar. That doesn’t mean I don’t have the ability to lie though… I would be interested.

I'd be open to doing this, yeah. seems pretty interesting. any ideas on time commitment?

Diplomacy&Warfare wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:00 am

This amount is sent via a private method (webDip PM or discord);

I will collapse in on myself if I have to use discord.

Sounds different, count me in please.

Interesting, include me please.

A few Qs

Do players know
the number of fish at the start of each round?
the number of players at the start of each round?
Is there any min/max catch per round? (I assume a min for survival)
Are players equal or do some need more than others?
Are all fish equal?

Assuming all equal, with F fish and N players shouldn't everyone simply catch F/3N?

seems cool...

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:35 pm

Interesting, include me please.

A few Qs

Do players know
the number of fish at the start of each round?
the number of players at the start of each round?
Is there any min/max catch per round? (I assume a min for survival)
Are players equal or do some need more than others?
Are all fish equal?

Assuming all equal, with F fish and N players shouldn't everyone simply catch F/3N?

Yes
Yes
Yes-ish. That will be part of the scoring system - negative points for not scoring any fish, diminishing returns for overfishing.
Yes! Player abilities will change the scoring systems, such that some people are more incentivized to overfish.
Yes.
Yes. That's part of the TotC (Tragedy of the Commons). However, fishing less would make the pond grow exponentially, while fishing more is technically more beneficial.

If everyone underfishes, overfishing is more beneficial from an individual perspective. But if everyone overfishes, everyone suffers. Additionally, let's say there are 5 players and 18 fish. Your equation yields each player fishing 6/5 of a fish, or 4 players fishing 1 fish and one fishing 2. The more you fish, the more benefit you get, and the more everyone is harmed (including you, but you are harmed less than you are benefitted).

Scoring system and fishing limits:
Each player can fish 0-5 fish each day. The scoring is as follows:
0 fish: -1 point
1 fish: 7 points
2 fish: 11 points
3 fish: 14 points
4 fish: 16 points
5 fish: 17 points
Points are cumulative, and represent in-game wealth. The goal of the game is to get as many points as possible.

kingofthepirates wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 am

I'd be open to doing this, yeah. seems pretty interesting. any ideas on time commitment?

Not much. Sending an amount of fish to fish each day, probably also interacting with the game thread in some way - roleplaying or discussion.

sign ups:
Pengwinja
kingofthepirates
Chairpusher
damo
Darthporg

Ooh, sign me up!

1. Pengwinja
2. kingofthepirates
3. Chairpusher
4. damo
5. Darthporg
6. JustAGuyNamedWill
7.
8.
…

As a penguin, I can confirm I am an expert fisher, and could fish around 12 fish in a day (personal record).

Player abilities and tags:
Players can get special tags and abilities through roleplaying on the thread, as well as scheming. As an example, if you have a habit of watching other fishermen, you might get an ability allowing you to get an approximation of how many fish another player fished each day:

At the start of each day, you may choose a player to watch. You receive a message indicating approximately how many fish that player fished that day. However, you also spend additional time around the pond. Each day when you watch another fisherman, any abilities reading how many fish you caught read you as having caught one more fish than you did.

This is an example of an ability. A tag is a generalized character trait, sometimes with abilities attached to it. For example, a tag called "Criminal" might allow you to privately talk to other players with the "Criminal" tag. Some tags can be detected by certain abilities. Every tag with the same name is identical.

Roleplaying and scheming:

Roleplaying occurs during the first phase of the day, same as fishing. Scheming occurs during the second phase of the day, after fishing is done and the amount of fish in the pond has been declared. Google "roleplaying". Scheming consists of a message sent at the end of the day to me, stating some action you are taking that you don't want to publicly reveal. Roleplaying and scheming can both get you abilities and tags, but this isn't a sandbox game. Roleplaying and scheming are written as things your characters attempt to do, and if they are things outside your characters' capabilities, they may fail. Scheming that you attempt to rob another player is likely to fail, potentially getting you caught, unless, for example, you have a "Criminal" tag. Roleplaying that you are Luke Skywalker fails.
Of course, you can also roleplay just to roleplay.

It should be noted that players can also talk out of character about the state of the game, such as saying, "I think [player] is overfishing."

Can we make secret deals with other players? Like

‘I will overfish and you will overfish and we’ll claim our abilities cleared us of any wrongdoing’

JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:22 pm

Can we make secret deals with other players? Like

‘I will overfish and you will overfish and we’ll claim our abilities cleared us of any wrongdoing’

You are socially expected to only talk to other fishermen around the pond. You can approach another fisherman, but it will be publicly known that you talked, if not what you discussed. Abilities may allow you to talk to other players, though.

If it wasn't clear, discussing the game via PMs to other players is not allowed.

However, if you approach another player or otherwise secure a private communication with them, any and all deals are allowed. It's a very cutthroat town.

Important terms:
A "Tag" is a characteristic someone has, such as "Criminal", "Member of the Secret Society", or "FBI operative". All tags with the same name are identical.
An "Ability" is an exception to the rules as they apply to a particular player.
A "Tagged Ability" is an ability attached to a tag. All players with that tag have this ability.
"Phase 1" is the phase in which roleplaying occurs. Phase 1 lasts about 24 hours. Scheming and other clandestine activities are PMed to the GM (me) during this phase, and fishing is executed during this phase.
"Phase 2" is the phase in which scheming and other clandestine activities occur. Phase 2 ends as soon as all Phase 2 actions have been resolved. Scheming and clandestine activities are resolved, and all players must submit the amount of fish they wish to fish the following day.

Alright I think that's everything. Sign ups are still open. The game will start tomorrow.

pure forums yeah? no discord at all?

kingofthepirates wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:47 pm

pure forums yeah? no discord at all?

I sure hope so.

This starting today?

I want to join in on this!

swap me for Fidelis I'm pretty busy right now and don't think I have time for this sorry