MAfIA 84 - A VERY TENDER THANKSGIVING GAME THREAD

[BunnyGo]

-- snipped --

Putting your own name in green is scummy

I told the story how I wanted.

[Bonatogether]

We know he jumped on a wagon with a teammate (on another teammate, as it turns out, but you're not going to acknowledge that), which makes me think he's savvy enough to get that expectation and play on it. Not strong evidence to me. Is there more?

can you clarify this

Edit underlined. He and sweet were voting together for you midway through D1.

you scumread me?

[ghug]

if you insist on scumreading an uncced pr, you might as well vote me out now and find out you're wrong. keeping someone you scumread alive makes no logical sense.

Town has time on their side...if there were only one scum, and STILL no CC...well, I'd almost have to believe you.

But as it is, this is a patient hunt. No need to run when the prey is wounded. I can go for your partner first.

fuck you. put your money where your mouth is or shut it

Yes, Bunny, vote for Bona before he goads a CC.

[BunnyGo]

Oh! What if it's two of damo/heart/Tem?

That would make some sense for the EOD movement. Sweet and Just couldn't get on Macca, since they could see Macca would save by jumping on them, and they were worried it'd line up all the scum on one nearly 100% scum driven wagon.

@bozo thoughts?

[ghug]

Oh! What if it's two of damo/heart/Tem?

That would make some sense for the EOD movement. Sweet and Just couldn't get on Macca, since they could see Macca would save by jumping on them, and they were worried it'd line up all the scum on one nearly 100% scum driven wagon.

It feels plausible, but again there was a lot of stacking and bussing.

[ghug]

can you clarify this

Edit underlined. He and sweet were voting together for you midway through D1.

you scumread me?

You're outed scum...

[Bonatogether]

BunnyGo: a hit piece from a biased and outed scum member, of little merit or value

this will not be unbiased. this will not be impartial. i know what conclusion i am going to reach because i have already reached it in previous posts. if you disagreed with that you are free to skip this post.

Huh awfully bold claim 13 pages in, Mr. Rivera.

And yes, i will still be defending myself extremely hard, like last time, so come at me

I have seen more then once scum joking about being scum and you are fully capable of doing this.

This said, defending yourself as either town or scum is what I expect for any decent player, so let's see.

Don’t worry, his ״defense״ was to say he’d offer a vigorous defense and then made more “jokes” that he’s mafia.

I don’t think I’ll be changing my vote today.

this is voting just. bunny votes him early in the day and never changes.

I’m not liking any of the wagons today. And I think they’re largely town lead. Just don’t like.

@bona @sweet @worcej what’re your thoughts on spirit so far?

wagons are 3 macca/3 bona/1 sweet/1 bunny at this moment. my recollection is that sweet was gaining in momentum, while both me and macca would pick up one vote between the two of us for the remainder of the day (just's freakout vote on macca). worcej and i are the sweet and bunny voters, while sweet is of course, scum. i don't think it's coincidence that bunny is asking the only people voting scum to shift onto town. he uses his next two posts targeting me and worcej to try to get us to change onto spirit. notably he never switches himself despite a fair amount of period of trying to rile up votes against spirit.

with will's weird frantic defense strategy, though, bunny starts to dig in on his vote.

Basically, @Jamie, he keeps saying he's mafia. And from what several people have said last game, he's not useful to town.

I like to give new players some slack on D1, but he's also not new.

I'd be happy to vote for Spirit too.

ghug, damo, bozo, heart, sweet, even jamie (with your weird decisions NOT to comment on things I'd expect you to comment on) I'm town leaning at the moment.

Archie Jones...that poor guy.

unsure of how to read this list of players. ghug/damo/bozo/heart are unflipped from it, and there's no obvious pattern among them.

decisions pl. n. Choices. Often demonstrated through actions, or behaviors.

Examples: 1) Not mentioning you know I work closely with heartthrob.
2) Your post responding to Chaqa about "Have you Read your Role PM" but never commenting on the lack of JOAT entirely, and not publicly wondering if Chaqa knew.
3) Commenting that Heart was mafia in the last game and then saying "the more they change the more they stay the same"
4) Talking about worcej like he's bona. What's with the Baltimore county stuff?
5) Not calling me out for +1ing while staying mostly silent for a long time

All in all, you've seemed sillier (changing people's names in quotes) and less likely to jump on things than I've seen in the past.

Bunny, other than my jokes, why do you scumread me?

Fine, let's dissect your "jokes"

The humor comes from saying, "Teehee, I'm mafia! Teehee." Which is to say, you're being transgressive by claiming to be the role in the game which nobody is supposed to claim to be.

But this is a game of listening to the players, understanding their POV.

There are a few reasons you might find this transgressive humor funny:

1) You're a 12-19 year old child
2) You're incapable of lying, and so covering for your inadequacies

There are others, but those are the likely ones.

Are you a 12 year old child? I didn't get that sense, but I could be wrong.

Otherwise, it seems this is how you WOULD behave were you scum. And you keep coming back to it unprompted. Which is off putting, as it seems at the front of your mind.

as was pointed out at the time, this sequence reads a lot like open coaching in the thread. this really is a spooky sequence to read. not sure how bongo can explain this one away

Yes! I do have some thoughts and observations that I've shared with the GT.

Are you interested in hearing them?

why would you ever not post conclusions in the thread

I post A LOT to the god thread, and don't want to overwhelm the main thread here. Been trying to listen more.

that is so true past me. posting thoughts is always a good thing.

the sequence of jamie trying to get things out of bunny is agonizing to read

@jamie some highlights of my thoughts:

This post by sweet was unlikely to be an attempt to bus you:

Guys, I said something incredibly British and Jamiet didn't catch it. I'm beginning to doubt his identity.

Not sure if this is buddying or coaching:

So far I scumread worcej and ND. Why? Worcej and ND have been playing really weirdly comparatively to the last game. Especially ND. He completely dipped after we pointed out his unusual actions.

What's different about worcej to you?

but THIS reads like coaching:

Huh awfully bold claim 13 pages in, Mr. Rivera.

And yes, i will still be defending myself extremely hard, like last time, so come at me

One thing I've learned is that you don't really have to respond to stuff like this, Will.

Rdr didn't even give a vague reason for it (though the quoted text implies it was because of your jokes).

We all know you were joking, or possibly, "joking".

Reserve defense for actual accusations, and focus on hunting or whatever.

This post (and the two immediately preceding it) feel more like sweet trying to miskill a slot he's worried will now be harder to miskill when it swaps from ND to Bona. He was looking forward to getting an ND miskill I think.

Also, ##VOTE Bona

I've decided that ND (Bona) could be scum.

ND's strategy actually halfway worked last time as Mafia. Several people townread him for his antics. So I'm thinking this game he decided to resurrect that strategy, banking on the fact that people would assume he wouldn't be so obvious about using his previous scum-strategy, and therefore would townread him.

The later posts with him voting ND and arguing with Bona continued this feel to me.

I’m not liking any of the wagons today. And I think they’re largely town lead. Just don’t like.

@bona @sweet @worcej what’re your thoughts on spirit so far?

I literally have had no thoughts on Radio this game, except poking him for pocketing.

What about you?

This is strange, I think if Spirit is a teammate he either ignores me or pushes a view. Sitting back and shrugging seems like he's giving a chance for ME to err by pushing a miskill on Spirit.


I think worcej, damo, bona, and jamie look towny.

ghug, spirit, bozo, and heart look townier than null.

Biggest POE: Tem, rdr, HamB, Chaqa

So did a bit of a dive on their ISOs:

Tem responded with a vote on sweet for voting on Bona. This feels unlike what I'd expect from scum!Tem in that situation.

Chaqa opened by scumming sweet, and then saying "why not both sweet AND ND being scum?" on page 8.

HamB and rdr looked pretty scummy on votes and posts. rdr is always hard to read. HamB...when he looks scummy...he is usually scum.


Would like wagons (in order of how likely I think they're scum) of

HamB, rdr(?), Just, Macca(?) tomorrow.


And Archie Jones...gotta find Archie Jones.

quoting this post in full for kicks.

he correctly argues that justwill is scum, and also implicitly townreads me. correctly deduces that spirit is town. his final list of people he'd like to vote and the POE he has is mostly followed. the next day, bunny votes ham (poe, wagon), tem (poe but somewhat rejected within that), damo (previously in the highest townreads), back to ham to end the day. of the people in his scum list/wagon list (temasek, rdr, ham, chaqa, just, macca), he votes for all of them except chaqa, rdr, macca, and most crucially, just. this is after the majority of the space of the post is calling out just for having been coached by sweet. highly curious.

Didn't he say this was his 2nd time playing? Give him some time to feel it out. Now that you have a theory about his thought process you can work better with him.

I haven't seen Bunny play as scum before so can't comment on his metas too much but this conversation generally feels townly? The repeated desire to understand how one person is working. Idk. Might spin more later i was tricked into doing a turkey trot

psychoanalysis that adds nothing to scumanalysis is not an inherently townie move.

also bongo only townreads me when he's scum

Or when you're scum...

We've yet to both correctly townread each other.

Someday our Thanksgiving timing will work out and we'll see each other for who we really are.

this post provides him with a way to jump from 'i townread bona' to 'i scumread bona'. why would someone who honestly townread me ever try to come up with ways to do that?

Macca's D1 voting behaviour was "I found this slot scummy but because my buddy subbed in I'll unvote and vote No Kill instead", was that not even slightly suspect?

Do you believe both Bona and Macca are scum?

Do you feel like you're playing/feeling differently than normal this game?

I've been surprised by several of your posts.

this is a loaded qestion. saying you're different is grounds to set up a scumread, and saying you're the same leads to a scumread when whatever inevitable difference is pointed out.

Do you feel like you're playing/feeling differently than normal this game?

I've been surprised by several of your posts.

No, I don't think I am playing differently, at least from my last games.

What is surprising you?

You’re both sharper (re: Just) and more frustrated (see post above to Tem).

It’s not my usual picture of you. I think of you as calm Brazilian on the beach.

and then exactly that happens.

things get into d3 which is today and therefore impossible to read because it's impossible to extricate from things

tl;dr bongo is scum

[Bonatogether]

Edit underlined. He and sweet were voting together for you midway through D1.

you scumread me?

You're outed scum...

i'm not though

[Bonatogether]

##vote bunnygo

[Bonatogether]

when i die bunny better be fucking next

[ghug]

you scumread me?

You're outed scum...

i'm not though

The watcher blatantly crumbed a scan on you and there's no mechanical way he misinterpreted a doc action, so you are scum. You're not even arguing it's not a crumb, you're just picking fights in the hopes of goading a CC.

I should be pleased that people are finally coming around to my philosophy of patience on PR claims but it is also baffling to me that this is the time they chose to do it.

[BunnyGo]

Oh! What if it's two of damo/heart/Tem?

That would make some sense for the EOD movement. Sweet and Just couldn't get on Macca, since they could see Macca would save by jumping on them, and they were worried it'd line up all the scum on one nearly 100% scum driven wagon.

It feels plausible, but again there was a lot of stacking and bussing.

Temasek had a weird solo wagon on sweet, left for Macca, and wasn't around for EOD (last post 8 hours before)

damo was Spirit, worcej, Macca, and then sat and didn't post once for the last 3.5 hours until his last minute move to sweet.

heart was on me (Bunny!) then Macca. Was around and active at EOD, but did not leave Macca. But was saying that Just seemed sus. He did insert himself into sweet arguing with Bona. AND sweet arguing with worcej. I've seen him play a very very good scum game at work, so this is in his wheelhouse.

[Chaqa]

One interesting thing is that the Stalker died D1 and not the Goon. Spirit moved things from 4 Macca - 3 Sweet - 3 Will to 4 Macca - 4 Sweet - 3 Will.

Bozo's vote looks pretty good in that aftermath.

Damo maybe too but he could have been a late bus pile-on.

So the question is - where are the other two mafia?

Our suspects:
Bonatogether, ghug, worcej - all were already voting Sweet. I think they're generally safe town, with the assumption Bona is the Doctor.

bozotheclown - as said before, his followup vote onto Sweet looks very good and I think losing the Stalker is not something scum!bozo would try to do on D1

BunnyGo - Bunny was apparently not around for about the final hour of D1. I think it's possible Bunny would put a vote on his Goon teammate Will and then disappear

Chaqa - I can prove I'm town by dying

damo666 - His late move onto Sweet was pretty pointless. I almost think scum!damo would not do this since it looks a little suspicious.

heartthrob24909 and Temasek - the diehard Macca voters. One present, one absent, both firmly in the PoE.

Macca573 - Given everything, on the balance, I think Macca is probably town, but still in the PoE

rdrivera2005 - I've noticed Rivera will get his teeth in scum and not let go. I suspect this happened D1 with Will. Reasonably town.

[Chaqa]

##Vote Bunny for now

I think I'd rather vote heart though

[TheMadMonarch]

Oh! What if it's two of damo/heart/Tem?

That would make some sense for the EOD movement. Sweet and Just couldn't get on Macca, since they could see Macca would save by jumping on them, and they were worried it'd line up all the scum on one nearly 100% scum driven wagon.

That's what I've been saying! At least... some of that is.

[ghug]

##Vote Bunny for now

I think I'd rather vote heart though

I like a heart vote if we're not killing Bona. I think Bunny, along with damo, has come out looking the best today, though it's definitely possible he and Bona are staging drama right now.

[Chaqa]

##Vote Bunny for now

I think I'd rather vote heart though

I like a heart vote if we're not killing Bona. I think Bunny, along with damo, has come out looking the best today, though it's definitely possible he and Bona are staging drama right now.

I don't believe Bunny and Bona could be scum together.

[ghug]

##Vote Bunny for now

I think I'd rather vote heart though

I like a heart vote if we're not killing Bona. I think Bunny, along with damo, has come out looking the best today, though it's definitely possible he and Bona are staging drama right now.

I don't believe Bunny and Bona could be scum together.

Why?

[Chaqa]

I like a heart vote if we're not killing Bona. I think Bunny, along with damo, has come out looking the best today, though it's definitely possible he and Bona are staging drama right now.

I don't believe Bunny and Bona could be scum together.

Why?

Seems unlikely two mafia would have named starting with B

[ghug]

I don't believe Bunny and Bona could be scum together.

Why?

Seems unlikely two mafia would have named starting with B

I was once scum with Bunny and brainbomb.