MAfIA 84 - A VERY TENDER THANKSGIVING GAME THREAD

[rdrivera2005]

Great job Vig.

I think that flip makes Bona more likely to be scum, but we will resolve this sooner or later.

Damo is up in my townreads.

I have still some doubts about Bozo, but it's not for today.

Vig should probably shoot Chaqa tomorrow or at EON.

##vote Tem

I was completely with you until the Tem vote. Why Tem?

I think his reaction to Bona claim was weird. And if he flips scum then Bona is likely town and we got info about EOD2.

Chaqa flipping gives almost no info and I don't have a better scum read.

[heartthrob24909]

##vote damo

Mostly based on voting patterns for Day 1 and Day 2. I'm getting tired.

Did you ever redo your envelope scum trios?

[BunnyGo]

##vote damo

Mostly based on voting patterns for Day 1 and Day 2. I'm getting tired.

Did you ever redo your envelope scum trios?

btw, he's probably sleeping (time zone whatnots)

[Chaqa]

A shot rings out!

Justaguynamedwill has died he was Ryan Paevey a big city Mafia Goon

Darn tootin

[Chaqa]

Chaqa voters, what do we think of this? Why would he say this?

I don’t really think you can psycho analyze chaqa because he has done so much random shit over time that it’s impossible to just assume he will be reasonable.

This is the way

My board game group calls me a "chaos gremlin" but I'm also the group's rules lawyer. It's a fine line to walk.

[bozotheclown]

Contrary to earlier reports, D2 EOD was not apathetic.

##VOTE Temasek

[bozotheclown]

Also, ##VOTE Bona

I've decided that ND (Bona) could be scum.

ND's strategy actually halfway worked last time as Mafia. Several people townread him for his antics. So I'm thinking this game he decided to resurrect that strategy, banking on the fact that people would assume he wouldn't be so obvious about using his previous scum-strategy, and therefore would townread him.

This feels like some very forced reasoning. ##vote Sweet just to get out of the no kill vote for now

Why did you never mention sweetandcool again after this?

[bozotheclown]

I was looking through Hamilton's old posts since sweet apparently has a history of advocating for bussing and Ham was sweet's first vote, and saw this one which I missed the first time I was reading through the thread

I found Macca voting for Bona due to his predecessor's actions and pulling out due to out-of-game stuff fairly interesting. A "sit back with popcorn" feel perhaps, and since the sweet wagon was going nowhere at the time I made my post I changed my vote

Macca didn't say anything about the sub request as a reason for scum reading that slot.

I probably worded it poorly, but I was aware that the substitution had no impact on Macca's vote, in fact, it made Macca pull her vote out of ND/Bona

From my view, the way things happened was.

>ND acted very hostile, enough for Macca to think he's scum on reread
>ND subs out for Bona
>Macca rereads the thread due to missing early game, and votes for Bona due to ND's actions before subbing out
>Macca changes vote to No Kill due to out-of-game factors regarding Bona

I just found this sequence interesting, and suspicious on first glance. But come to think of it now it feels more like town behaviour

Willing to explain more?

A bunch of people tried to wagon Macca for very questionable reasons and then she ended up being just as much of a counterwagon as Will.

Macca's D1 voting behaviour was "I found this slot scummy but because my buddy subbed in I'll unvote and vote No Kill instead", was that not even slightly suspect?

How did Macca's D1 go from "more like town behaviour" to "suspect"?

[Bonatogether]

we're going to reread all the spam that justwill produced

[worcej]

Contrary to earlier reports, D2 EOD was not apathetic.

##VOTE Temasek

Because you believe Temasek is scum?

[worcej]

I don’t really think you can psycho analyze chaqa because he has done so much random shit over time that it’s impossible to just assume he will be reasonable.

This is the way

My board game group calls me a "chaos gremlin" but I'm also the group's rules lawyer. It's a fine line to walk.

Doesn't shock me in the slightest

[Bonatogether]

justadudenamedwill

lot of early d1 shitposting

Right... so just because he was town last game and we lost because we miskilled him means we can't question or point things out when he says contradictory, insane, unintelligible babble in THIS game? Glad to know your stated position up front girlfriend!

lol, Will's actual role is isn't important. We know with certainty he will say something scummy and the only real decision we have to make is when we townkill him and not if.

My real goal for the game is to teach the lobby how awesome using math in mafia is

I will not copy and paste my mafia PM

Oops sorry mafia partner spirit

this is crazy looking back

So far I scumread worcej and ND. Why? Worcej and ND have been playing really weirdly comparatively to the last game. Especially ND. He completely dipped after we pointed out his unusual actions.

lot of ND hate that is not really justified

Also, ##VOTE Bona

I've decided that ND (Bona) could be scum.

ND's strategy actually halfway worked last time as Mafia. Several people townread him for his antics. So I'm thinking this game he decided to resurrect that strategy, banking on the fact that people would assume he wouldn't be so obvious about using his previous scum-strategy, and therefore would townread him.

This is like 3 meta layers deep. Would be funny if Bona dies immediately after subbing in. However my original assessment on NDs sudden dissapearamce has been thrown out the (car) window. So I have no real evidence on anyone anymore, except a gut feeling that its worcej

i've been told that myself commentary on people reading me is biased. presented without comment, therefore.

Huh awfully bold claim 13 pages in, Mr. Rivera.

And yes, i will still be defending myself extremely hard, like last time, so come at me

One thing I've learned is that you don't really have to respond to stuff like this, Will.

Rdr didn't even give a vague reason for it (though the quoted text implies it was because of your jokes).

We all know you were joking, or possibly, "joking".

Reserve defense for actual accusations, and focus on hunting or whatever.

By this, I am trying to disprove any false allegations of my mafianess, which is probably why I lost the game last time. I will still be anvery active defender of myself, although i will indeed heel until Rivera comes up with a real accusation.

Still, doesnt it strike you as weird he didnt provide a reason?

feel like this makes rdr look better

I'll try one last time. You're wrong about the first half.

I thought ND's slot was worth a flip, based on his behavior.

You subbing in does not magically change that.

It's hard to read you personally, so you personally are a null read. But taking into account ND's behavior in your slot I still maintain that I want your slot flipped.

Seriously, if there is a player that I tend to townread, are you claiming I should townread the person they subbed in for, even if that player was an utter scumread. This is nonsense Bona.

there's not possibly a way to have two reads on one slot. i'm not claiming that you should ignore either me or ND, but whatever your read is, it needs to parse on both players. otherwise your position is not internally consistent. what you have done is produced a read on ND, refused to make a read of me or apply your read of ND to me, but still want to vote the slot.

Actually bona, I kinda of agree with sweet on this one. I think sweet is trying to say that he scumread ND because of his actions and mannerisms. However, when you substituted, you acted a lot less suspicious, regardless of your actual role. D1 is just based on literal nothingness and thus your actions as two different people warrant two different reads

i knew i was being gaslit
now i can return to partiality and not feel bad about it

some opinions I have

Fun sponge BunnyGo has proven himself to be an unreliable, as he has made his opinion based on my jokes, which he would have no knowledge of if this is Norma for me or not. So yeah

Unless he’s just trying to get an easy miskill that Spirit pointed out early. Which in that case looks like a mafia inclined Spirit trying to justify an easy miskill on me.

Coming back to my jokes, one thing Jamie brought up was my joke about ND being a bad mafia partner. This should be disregarded as it is a joke.

Knowing how it feels to be aggressively targeted by a town ND, I can safely say that his actions of craziness happened too early to be natural (or at least natural for ND)

Yes, bona does make some good points, but no, they cannot make up for NDs antics, and Bona may just be trying to save a doomed situation.

On the other hand, ND may have just been acting stupid and Bona now has to pick up the pieces.

Unless any new information or counterclaims come out, I believe Bona is the best target. He has been put into an unfortunate situation though, and I do commend him for his good threat level control.

Anyways I just wanted to rant about something

Let’s do this guys

Losing ND is tough, but losing Bona is not

##VOTE ND

first principles says that he probably mentions a teammate here, and of the people he mentions (bunny, spirit, jamie, nd/me), i feel like there's a clear odd one out (fmpov of course). i feel like this, in conjunction with what bongo has been doing otherwise, provides a relatively firm footing for saying we're opposite paired.

Or pocketing, whatever it’s called

Either or.

I have my eye on you.

Nice deflection by the way, addressing only my pocketing or buddying comment and not my actual suspicion

sigh

will moving onto her was the first thing thats really registered as scummy. Sweet is on his wagon too

Well as town, self preservation is a town motivated move, as it keeps town alive lol

alpha spirit killing it here

##Vote Just

Tie it up and get the vanities to move over the next 20 minutes.

Still looking for a Macca-as-mafia explanation just because they "forgot they signed up," etc.

I don’t know. I’m rereading everything to see if I voted right, but I’m 100% certain that if I change my vote then I die, no matter what I actually think. I just saw that Macca said ND was scummy without ND being here, and it makes me wonder if she really just didn’t pay attention or if she truly forgot, picked a name at random, and rolled with it, only to get slapped in the face with realization

that he doesn't try to take a drill to sweet here suggests to me that macca is town

If I forget to reply by EON and by some miracle I die then kill Bunny cuz hes wrong about me.

unsure how to read this. i think this makes bongo look worse but i could see reading it either way

ok which one of you didn't like the bio spirit wrote about you

This is kind of sus.

RIP Spirit.

##VOTE Just

Would also do Temasek or Bona. Jamie/damo/Bunny is the next tier.

I townread bozo and Macca and that's kind of it, guess I don't really want worcej either, so my goal for the day is more townreads.

Ghug: calls out heartthrob

Also Ghug: voted me for heartthrobs post

Ghug is just looking for an easy excuse to kill me. I think mafia killed spirit to get an easy miskill in me

suggests to me that ghug is ok

Spirit said that if I was going to be miskill end late in the game, he’d rather not have that and he preferred if I died early. I think the mafia killed spirit just so they could say “Oh yeah Will was a target of Spirit” then kill me

OK...

Whom do you think (I won't hold you to it) a possible 3 remaining scum team is?

No matter how I answer this is going to get me hella suspicions.

The 4 are probably:
Sweet
Ghug because he has no goddamn clue why I am scum, only that I am. Feeling is not enough to warrant a vote.
Other two I have no idea. Is two of: Jamie, Worcej, Heartthrob, Bunny, or taotao

bunny prompting will to have a readslist isn't a great look for him. this readslist also major league sucks. if we assume again that there's one scum named here, bunny pops up again

he disappears for all of n2

d3 stuff is extremely hard to read with my claim and not much resolution coming out of it aside from his flip so i won't really talk about it

he has some interactions with bunny that fit with bunny being scum but again, super hard to read it on the same day

then he gets pew pewed



tl;dr for everyone too lazy to read my post (everyone)

the headline finding here is that bunny is likely scum
rd looks better
macca looks better
ghug looks better maybe?

[Bonatogether]

now we are going to reread bongo the drum

[Bonatogether]

before someone claims i'm frankenposting these are not enormously long, they just have a lot of posts

[Bonatogether]

preliminary finding of a third of all of this guy's posts are in the last 30 hours

absolutely horrendous

[BunnyGo]

Bona...your story su**s. You skipped entire threads of Just's interactions just looking for the few that made me look bad and you look good. You did some good work finding/avoiding them; it's an impressive amount of work. That wasn't written by someone looking to learn from a new flip, that was someone looking to make a case.

I'd vote you today if town needed to get it done today.

Now lets show how to tell a story of an EOD:

Titled: The scum wagons

[Bonatogether]

Bona...your story su**s. You skipped entire threads of Just's interactions just looking for the few that made me look bad and you look good. You did some good work finding/avoiding them; it's an impressive amount of work. That wasn't written by someone looking to learn from a new flip, that was someone looking to make a case.

I'd vote you today if town needed to get it done today.

Now lets show how to tell a story of an EOD:

Titled: The scum wagons

yes, i did skip much. much of it was either irrelevant, non-interpretable, or simply spam. that's what it means to pick out the highlights. you're free to look at the whole thing without my biased commentary here - https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=84&user=JustAGuyNamedWill, although i suspect you find some excuse to refuse to engage with the content of my thoughts or the evidence upon which it is grounded regardless.

about eod1, i think you're able to do it yourself. i do what i think is best, you are free to help or hinder as you see fit. i hope you step it up soon if you are actually town

[Bonatogether]

i'm curious about your comment that i was trying to make myself look good - i don't believe i ever said that i look good in that post. i quoted things that were relevant to me, which can be interpreted any which way. i think the most explicit thing i said was that you and i are almost certainly opposite alignments. surely you agree with this?

[BunnyGo]

The EOD1 finished with these wagons, but the story of how we got there is quite impressive:

sweetandcool (8) worcej ghug Bonatogether SpiritoftheRadio bozotheclown Jamiet99uk JustAGuyNamedWill damo666
JustAGuyNamedWill (4) BunnyGo rdrivera2005 sweetandcool Hamilton Brian
Macca573 (2) heartthrob24909 Temasek22
Bonatogether (1) Chaqa*
No‑Kill (1) Macca573

An hour before EOD there were different wagons:

Macca had been in the lead for a while

Macca573 (3) damo heartthrob24909 Temasek22
Bona (3) sweetandcool Chaqa JustAGuyNamedWill
sweetandcool (2) worcej ghug
No-Kill (2) Macca Jamie
BunnyGo (2) Bona SpiritoftheRadio
JustAGuyNamedWill (2) BunnyGo rdr
Temasek (1) bozo

This had sat for 20 minutes since Jamie left worcej's vanity wagon to a no-kill.

Bona seems to have skipped me arguing with Just and Bona saying "Bongo those are not kind words" And not 2 posts later switches from voting me to voting sweet "for self-preservation".

Notice voting Macca would have been untying the lead, but Bona puts sweet into a 3-way tie with himself and Macca.

Macca573 (3) damo heartthrob24909 Temasek22
Bona (3) sweetandcool Chaqa JustAGuyNamedWill
sweetandcool (3) worcej ghug Bona
No-Kill (2) Macca Jamie
JustAGuyNamedWill (2) BunnyGo rdr
BunnyGo (1) SpiritoftheRadio
Temasek (1) bozo

This occurs in a cross-post with sweet who switches to voting Just and then utters the odd words "Ach, bad timing, I just changed my vote."

THIS is a VERY VERY strange sequence. I think that with the right view of the game, this sequence makes sense: Why did nobody vote Macca "for self preservation"? Why did sweet say that? Why did sweet CHOOSE to vote Just?

It became:

Macca573 (3) damo heartthrob24909 Temasek22
JustAGuyNamedWill (3) BunnyGo rdrsweetandcool
Bona (2) Chaqa JustAGuyNamedWill
sweetandcool (3) worcej ghug Bona
No-Kill (2) Macca Jamie
BunnyGo (1) SpiritoftheRadio
Temasek (1) bozo

Part two: the reflexive bus coming soon.

[BunnyGo]

i'm curious about your comment that i was trying to make myself look good - i don't believe i ever said that i look good in that post. i quoted things that were relevant to me, which can be interpreted any which way. i think the most explicit thing i said was that you and i are almost certainly opposite alignments. surely you agree with this?

It's hard to be sure with you.

1) You do self-admittedly su** at mechs. I could see you using RB as scum, and honestly claiming your doc visits as town. That said, you never claimed without pressure before. Why did you claim this time?

2) You and Just were laser focused on each other today. It read like scum theatre between two scum who knew they were caught and trying to bus/distance.

3) Just seems to KNOW you visited Spirit.

4) Jamie doesn't miscrumb like that

5) You don't neg me like this as town.

so...lots and lots of reasons to vote you. But 1 big reason not to: I don't need to today, we have time to let the doctor sit.

And I might be wrong.