M1025 Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

It’s the exact opposite wtf

I have a group of people I wouldn’t kill, a group of people I’m ambivalent about and would kill, and a couple of people I think are actively good flips. You said we should be nice and not touch the last group. I’m not confident enough in my understanding of the game yet to spare that

Your claim is that confidence leads to an ability to bypass a scum read for a lesser read. That the game must be solved and I am voting people because I know they are scum.

The town mindset is different. I am confused. And I am voting people because they are giving me reason to suspect them. But I have little to no confidence. So I am willing to be generous and let people play a bit BECAUSE I have not confidence. I’m happy to vote other people exactly for that reason.

A town player would easily recognize this. Especially in another town player. A wolf who is focusing more on flipping may not.

Ok that I actually follow.

I don’t approach the game the same way. I’ve played enough games that I wouldn’t expect or want that mercy directed my way and I don’t want to have to be constrained by a covert contract to show that mercy when I think I’ve got a catch. (And in any case my main target didn’t even flip last game, so what are we doing here?)

I don’t get why you think I’d even open this line of inquiry as scum when I know no one is going to be moved by your argument. This question only ever comes from town that wants to understand where his townread is

So what does confidence have to do with it?

[President Eden]

I was stupefied by the initial argument

I’m doubly stupefied that my initial stupefied reaction was deemed a “scumslip”

I’m now triply stupefied that my incredulousness at the above sequence is being deemed scummy

It's not the incredulousness, it's the levelheadedness and desire to be given an opportunity to prove that irked me. I'm incredulous too.

Because Bunny—who I was townreading confidently before all this, mind—spent 3 replies cryptically implying I missed something obvious, which led me to believe that if I just got a plain spoken explanation that I could resolve the disagreement. If I thought he was acting in bad faith or just dense then I wouldn’t have bothered

[brainbomb]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

[Chaqa]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

[President Eden]

Your claim is that confidence leads to an ability to bypass a scum read for a lesser read. That the game must be solved and I am voting people because I know they are scum.

The town mindset is different. I am confused. And I am voting people because they are giving me reason to suspect them. But I have little to no confidence. So I am willing to be generous and let people play a bit BECAUSE I have not confidence. I’m happy to vote other people exactly for that reason.

A town player would easily recognize this. Especially in another town player. A wolf who is focusing more on flipping may not.

Ok that I actually follow.

I don’t approach the game the same way. I’ve played enough games that I wouldn’t expect or want that mercy directed my way and I don’t want to have to be constrained by a covert contract to show that mercy when I think I’ve got a catch. (And in any case my main target didn’t even flip last game, so what are we doing here?)

I don’t get why you think I’d even open this line of inquiry as scum when I know no one is going to be moved by your argument. This question only ever comes from town that wants to understand where his townread is

So what does confidence have to do with it?

Because if I have 7-8 people I’m never killing, 1-2 people I’m ambivalent about, and a pool of 4 left that I’m probably always flipping regardless because I have so many people I’m never killing, then in deciding who to shoot from among that pool, something like “well P has died D1 three games in a row and Q has been in the endgame all three times” might actually matter to me to some degree. I don’t know that I’d actually flip Q over P because of it, but it would be an open question because I’ve already mostly decided they’re both flipping anyway.

That requires a lot of confidence in the game state though, which I just don’t have right now. I got one shot I think is quite good, another that’s still good but less so (granted, I haven’t ready pyx’s catch-up post), some nulls and I think about 5/12 other players I wouldn’t shoot D1 but haven’t written off. Totally different situation.

[President Eden]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

I don’t. What am I / are we missing?

[brainbomb]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

Not at all. he was more hollow and asking for advice last game.

examples like when he hid for most of day 1 then shows up saying he scumreads me. then starts asking if I always post a read and then change it. the replies were less sharp. his presence was distant all game and im picking up he really thinks eden is scum here. and isnt asking an audiences approval on it

[damo666]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

Why is bunny obvtown?

[brainbomb]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

Why is bunny obvtown?

because he just clearly is

[BunnyGo]

Ok that I actually follow.

I don’t approach the game the same way. I’ve played enough games that I wouldn’t expect or want that mercy directed my way and I don’t want to have to be constrained by a covert contract to show that mercy when I think I’ve got a catch. (And in any case my main target didn’t even flip last game, so what are we doing here?)

I don’t get why you think I’d even open this line of inquiry as scum when I know no one is going to be moved by your argument. This question only ever comes from town that wants to understand where his townread is

So what does confidence have to do with it?

Because if I have 7-8 people I’m never killing, 1-2 people I’m ambivalent about, and a pool of 4 left that I’m probably always flipping regardless because I have so many people I’m never killing, then in deciding who to shoot from among that pool, something like “well P has died D1 three games in a row and Q has been in the endgame all three times” might actually matter to me to some degree. I don’t know that I’d actually flip Q over P because of it, but it would be an open question because I’ve already mostly decided they’re both flipping anyway.

That requires a lot of confidence in the game state though, which I just don’t have right now. I got one shot I think is quite good, another that’s still good but less so (granted, I haven’t ready pyx’s catch-up post), some nulls and I think about 5/12 other players I wouldn’t shoot D1 but haven’t written off. Totally different situation.

7-8?! NEVER killing? How are you so confident in your reads?! While also saying “I have no confidence”

[President Eden]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

Not at all. he was more hollow and asking for advice last game.

examples like when he hid for most of day 1 then shows up saying he scumreads me. then starts asking if I always post a read and then change it. the replies were less sharp. his presence was distant all game and im picking up he really thinks eden is scum here. and isnt asking an audiences approval on it

W

[Jamiet99uk]

This Bunny / Eden exchange is moving so fast I can hardly keep up.

I also do not see what Bunny is getting at.

[President Eden]

So what does confidence have to do with it?

Because if I have 7-8 people I’m never killing, 1-2 people I’m ambivalent about, and a pool of 4 left that I’m probably always flipping regardless because I have so many people I’m never killing, then in deciding who to shoot from among that pool, something like “well P has died D1 three games in a row and Q has been in the endgame all three times” might actually matter to me to some degree. I don’t know that I’d actually flip Q over P because of it, but it would be an open question because I’ve already mostly decided they’re both flipping anyway.

That requires a lot of confidence in the game state though, which I just don’t have right now. I got one shot I think is quite good, another that’s still good but less so (granted, I haven’t ready pyx’s catch-up post), some nulls and I think about 5/12 other players I wouldn’t shoot D1 but haven’t written off. Totally different situation.

7-8?! NEVER killing? How are you so confident in your reads?! While also saying “I have no confidence”

Say that again and think more about it when you do

[BunnyGo]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

I don’t. What am I / are we missing?

I don’t either. I’m taking notes on my mind state for my next scum game.

[brainbomb]

Pyxxy is probably a solid flip for today

##Vote pyxxy

[ghug]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

Is scumreading Bunny necessarily scummy if you don't know him that well, though?

I thought Pyxxy's effort and progression in the catch-up felt authentic.

[BunnyGo]

Because if I have 7-8 people I’m never killing, 1-2 people I’m ambivalent about, and a pool of 4 left that I’m probably always flipping regardless because I have so many people I’m never killing, then in deciding who to shoot from among that pool, something like “well P has died D1 three games in a row and Q has been in the endgame all three times” might actually matter to me to some degree. I don’t know that I’d actually flip Q over P because of it, but it would be an open question because I’ve already mostly decided they’re both flipping anyway.

That requires a lot of confidence in the game state though, which I just don’t have right now. I got one shot I think is quite good, another that’s still good but less so (granted, I haven’t ready pyx’s catch-up post), some nulls and I think about 5/12 other players I wouldn’t shoot D1 but haven’t written off. Totally different situation.

7-8?! NEVER killing? How are you so confident in your reads?! While also saying “I have no confidence”

Say that again and think more about it when you do

7-8?! NEVER killing?

I hear you saying that there are 7-8 players whom you deem towny enough that you’ve put them outside your vote today. And that this confidence in your sense of them means that you MUST vote in the remaining 5 or so players.

By confidence, I hear you say that you believe there’s no benefit to the town in flipping these players.

[brainbomb]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

Is scumreading Bunny necessarily scummy if you don't know him that well, though?

I thought Pyxxy's effort and progression in the catch-up felt authentic.

quote the efforts and progressions by pyxxy you found authentic.

[Chaqa]

bunny is pretty obvious as town here. so once again pyxxy is positioned in a way that seems scummy

I agree somewhat on Bunny, but do you not see any similarities to his playstyle last game as mafia?

Not at all. he was more hollow and asking for advice last game.

examples like when he hid for most of day 1 then shows up saying he scumreads me. then starts asking if I always post a read and then change it. the replies were less sharp. his presence was distant all game and im picking up he really thinks eden is scum here. and isnt asking an audiences approval on it

Hmm yeah that makes sense. Bunny almost made the cut for my "do not vote" list, so I'm fine throwing him on it by consensus, since that's how town should function.

PoE narrowed.

[Jamiet99uk]

Maybe it would be interesting to ##Vote Fluminator.