M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

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KoalaAttack
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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#801 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:23 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:20 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:41 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:07 am
But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?
My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?
So, you think Ghug forgot to think about the timing of the gunshot because he was too busy reminding himself to pretend to be town?
Essentially, yes. I'm having a hard time putting this into concise words.

I think it's very similar to what ghug just said about worcej is notorious for – you actually have perfect knowledge, and you are trying to make it out like you don't, and you didn't "compute all the chess moves" of what it would be like to really not have that knowledge. And so you make a little mistake and don't actually come across how a truly-ignorant-of-said-knowlege person would.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#802 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:24 pm

Bonatogether wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:08 pm
i am 10 miles short of the virginia line

possibly will return to normal posting schedule late tonight
Quick! Buford T. Justice is hot on your tail.
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#803 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:27 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:23 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:20 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:41 pm


My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?
So, you think Ghug forgot to think about the timing of the gunshot because he was too busy reminding himself to pretend to be town?
Essentially, yes. I'm having a hard time putting this into concise words.

I think it's very similar to what ghug just said about worcej is notorious for – you actually have perfect knowledge, and you are trying to make it out like you don't, and you didn't "compute all the chess moves" of what it would be like to really not have that knowledge. And so you make a little mistake and don't actually come across how a truly-ignorant-of-said-knowlege person would.
OK. I understand your view now.

I think you're incorrect because Ghug is very good at keeping his cool as scum, btw.
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#804 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:30 pm

I like the word "gotcha" – thanks ghug.

I am a Townie Heel provoking reactions and hunting for Mafia "gotcha" give-aways or inconsistencies with their past behavior.

And here is the thing – I don't need to be the one doing the analysis. I just need to get the Mafias to react. Other real Townies can then sift through their reactions as well.

Like how several people have now commented on whether or not it's natural for some of y'all to be as riled up by my silly impersonation. Personally, I have no idea, I just don't have enough data on you folks yet. But others who played with you a lot do. So as long as I trigger those reactions from you, that gives the Town "food for thought".

I proudly stand by my approach like a good Heel would.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#805 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:36 pm

PS: That's both part of my EdenKoala impersonation as "a student of the game" who writes guides on it – as well as my real KoalaKoala thinking.

When the two align, sweet!

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#806 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:37 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:30 pm
I like the word "gotcha" – thanks ghug.

I am a Townie Heel provoking reactions and hunting for Mafia "gotcha" give-aways or inconsistencies with their past behavior.

And here is the thing – I don't need to be the one doing the analysis. I just need to get the Mafias to react. Other real Townies can then sift through their reactions as well.

Like how several people have now commented on whether or not it's natural for some of y'all to be as riled up by my silly impersonation. Personally, I have no idea, I just don't have enough data on you folks yet. But others who played with you a lot do. So as long as I trigger those reactions from you, that gives the Town "food for thought".

I proudly stand by my approach like a good Heel would.
If you don't draw conclusions, we have no reason to believe you're town. Provoking reactions is well and good, but it's only half of the process.

You're also conflating scumreading you with being offended by your schtick.
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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#807 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:40 pm

ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:37 pm
You're also conflating scumreading you with being offended by your schtick.
-->
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:30 pm
Like how several people have now commented on whether or not it's natural for some of y'all to be as riled up by my silly impersonation. Personally, I have no idea, I just don't have enough data on you folks yet. But others who played with you a lot do. So as long as I trigger those reactions from you, that gives the Town "food for thought".
Please expand on why you don't feel this is a legit approach for me to ask "hey, others who played with ghuh & Jamiet a lot – is this a normal reaction of being offended by my schtick from them?"

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#808 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:42 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:40 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:37 pm
You're also conflating scumreading you with being offended by your schtick.
-->
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:30 pm
Like how several people have now commented on whether or not it's natural for some of y'all to be as riled up by my silly impersonation. Personally, I have no idea, I just don't have enough data on you folks yet. But others who played with you a lot do. So as long as I trigger those reactions from you, that gives the Town "food for thought".
Please expand on why you don't feel this is a legit approach for me to ask "hey, others who played with ghuh & Jamiet a lot – is this a normal reaction of being offended by my schtick from them?"
I thought the schtick was a fun idea and was fully expecting you to do it as either alignment. I just don't think you're doing it especially townily.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#809 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:44 pm

Or are you saying that there is a sliding scale from Mafia-reading me for it on one end to being annoyed by it on another?

If so, I think it's very interesting to consider where everyone lands on this scale.

There were others, like TFB for example who didn't like it, or Damo who just voted for option (C) for me to stop with the Impersonation – who have done it with much les s"intensity of argument or apparent passion for it" than what Kak and Jamiet or even yourself did.

I find this... interesting. But I can't say what it means because I lack as much of the past-Jamiet or past-ghug or past-TFB or past-Damo data points. Others can help!

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#810 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:49 pm

ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:42 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:40 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:37 pm
You're also conflating scumreading you with being offended by your schtick.
-->
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:30 pm
Like how several people have now commented on whether or not it's natural for some of y'all to be as riled up by my silly impersonation. Personally, I have no idea, I just don't have enough data on you folks yet. But others who played with you a lot do. So as long as I trigger those reactions from you, that gives the Town "food for thought".
Please expand on why you don't feel this is a legit approach for me to ask "hey, others who played with ghuh & Jamiet a lot – is this a normal reaction of being offended by my schtick from them?"
I thought the schtick was a fun idea and was fully expecting you to do it as either alignment. I just don't think you're doing it especially townily.
I appreciate that but it doesn't answer my question. I did not ask you about what you think about my schtick.

Is it a legit strategy for me to ask others who know you better to consider your reaction?

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#811 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:52 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:49 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:42 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:40 pm


-->



Please expand on why you don't feel this is a legit approach for me to ask "hey, others who played with ghuh & Jamiet a lot – is this a normal reaction of being offended by my schtick from them?"
I thought the schtick was a fun idea and was fully expecting you to do it as either alignment. I just don't think you're doing it especially townily.
I appreciate that but it doesn't answer my question. I did not ask you about what you think about my schtick.

Is it a legit strategy for me to ask others who know you better to consider your reaction?
Similarly to my last answer, yes, in principle that's fine, but you're making an incorrect assertion about what it is I'm doing that's framing your question.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#812 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:58 pm

Let's take a step back. Just go with me for a second please:

- I am a Townie (unprovable to you, but I know this)
- My current best hypothesis is "ghug is Mafia" followed by "Jamiet is Mafia"

- So, my goal is to make as strong a case for current best hypothesis at the moment
- Failing that, the next best thing is to put the case for all to see
- So in case I get either MK-ed or NK-ed, people will read my case and hopefully vindicate by voting ghug or Jamiet tomorrow

...

I am trying not to tunnel, and I am happy to change my current best hypothesis

But the way to change my mind, in turn, is by furnishing me with a better hypothesis. The second I have a better / stronger Suspect than Jamiet or yourself, I am going to latch onto them as hard.

But until I see a relatively better hypothesis, I have to play to the best one I've got so far – no?

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#813 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:01 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:58 pm
Let's take a step back. Just go with me for a second please:

- I am a Townie (unprovable to you, but I know this)
- My current best hypothesis is "ghug is Mafia" followed by "Jamiet is Mafia"

- So, my goal is to make as strong a case for current best hypothesis at the moment
- Failing that, the next best thing is to put the case for all to see
- So in case I get either MK-ed or NK-ed, people will read my case and hopefully vindicate by voting ghug or Jamiet tomorrow

...

I am trying not to tunnel, and I am happy to change my current best hypothesis

But the way to change my mind, in turn, is by furnishing me with a better hypothesis. The second I have a better / stronger Suspect than Jamiet or yourself, I am going to latch onto them as hard.

But until I see a relatively better hypothesis, I have to play to the best one I've got so far – no?
Sure?

Is your case on Jamie just that he's ornery, or what?

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#814 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:01 pm

And you seem to be trying hard to point out how my current best hypothesis on you is wrong. Instead of finding and furnishing a better hypothesis.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#815 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:03 pm

ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:01 pm
Is your case on Jamie just that he's ornery, or what?
My case on Jamiet is he got surprisingly annoyed by me stubbornly doing my own thing after watching me do the very same in one game he GM-ed and another game the entirety of which he watched with the perfect info of the God Thread.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#816 Post by KoalaAttack » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:08 pm

it's not exactly the strongest of cases. But I have no better one I've seen so far.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#817 Post by brainbomb » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:14 pm

GM NOTE
Dargy will be doing phase shift so please submit any night actions to both myself and darg if you have not already.
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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#818 Post by Hamilton Brian » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:30 pm

I’m not sure “surprisingly annoyed” is entirely fair. I think Jamie was pretty annoyed at my numbering my posts.

In a bizarro world, Jamie drills down on those “annoyances” to get some towndoubt built on the particular player. That’s something a mafiajamie would happily do. I think.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#819 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:32 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:01 pm
And you seem to be trying hard to point out how my current best hypothesis on you is wrong. Instead of finding and furnishing a better hypothesis.
Aha, the shoe is on the other foot!

If you'll recall, I brain dumped my view of the game state towards the beginning of the night. I actively avoid tunneling on people day 2 because it tends to make me play the game worse, but I've got a solid pool of probable townies and several people I'd be comfortable traveling tomorrow. The only people doing a lot of talking tonight are you and me, and I'm hoping to get a better read on you out of it, but I haven't really reached any conclusions yet.

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Re: M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

#820 Post by ghug » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:33 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:03 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:01 pm
Is your case on Jamie just that he's ornery, or what?
My case on Jamiet is he got surprisingly annoyed by me stubbornly doing my own thing after watching me do the very same in one game he GM-ed and another game the entirety of which he watched with the perfect info of the God Thread.
Well, to answer the question you asked others but not me, that's very typically Jamie.

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