M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[worcej]

I didn't expect scum Kak to openly speculate about setup and Mafia roles. Usually scum not engage in this type of speculation to avoid saying something that can be either a scumslip or give info to town when they flip. Looking at Kak posts I am guessing we have 3 scum (2 now) and no strong powers.

Scum mech talk all the time.

Ghug is right. As scum, it's useful to talk about mechanics because you don't need to lie about them, in principle. Talking about mechanics is an opportunity to fill the thread with content and look like you're participating, without mentioning your team-mates, falsifying reads, etcetera.

Do you think this is the same for a closed setup?

[worcej]

Bonatogether, Hamilton Brian, Rdrivera, Bozo and Worcej are all too busy in the Mafia Discord to post here, I notice.

I am still traveling until tomorrow evening. Stopped for lunch now then a 6 hour drive to MSP.

[KoalaAttack]

Before last night, I saw no effort to try to solve. The argument was accurate at the time. Now you've expanded to scumreading me, which has some positives (a stated opinion, OMGUS is townie) and some negatives (only one opinion, the logic is very tenuous). Are you arguing that you've shown some effort to solve beyond that?

Well, once again this is just not true. I have expressed Suspicious of both Jamiet and yourself before your post "at the time".

I mean, I am not going to go back and re-post every single post just for you and spell it out. If I have to write a PhD thesis or a cliff-notes breakdown for every bit, that's way too much effort.

The other trend I see is you often say things that amount to "you didn't explicitly spell it out". Yet I'd say I do that a lot more than, say, you do. I see a lot of very short sentences implying things from you. And I have no problem following along.

I think you are in turn clever enough to follow mine, so I don't buy this "spell it out for me" act of yours and think it's a bit suspicious from a good veteran player.

[Bonatogether]

##VOTE TheFluminator

joking bozo is scum bozo

[Bonatogether]

i am 10 miles short of the virginia line

possibly will return to normal posting schedule late tonight

[Bonatogether]

##VOTE Kak

The early setup-focused participation and thread-clogging followed by a drop in activity reminds me of the time I caught him day one.

Glad it was noticed as well (the heavy participation early on). I don't think I've got the context of your experience but I can see how it'd inform your POV.

dislike this post now that kak flipped

[ghug]

Before last night, I saw no effort to try to solve. The argument was accurate at the time. Now you've expanded to scumreading me, which has some positives (a stated opinion, OMGUS is townie) and some negatives (only one opinion, the logic is very tenuous). Are you arguing that you've shown some effort to solve beyond that?

Well, once again this is just not true. I have expressed Suspicious of both Jamiet and yourself before your post "at the time".

I mean, I am not going to go back and re-post every single post just for you and spell it out. If I have to write a PhD thesis or a cliff-notes breakdown for every bit, that's way too much effort.

The other trend I see is you often say things that amount to "you didn't explicitly spell it out". Yet I'd say I do that a lot more than, say, you do. I see a lot of very short sentences implying things from you. And I have no problem following along.

I think you are in turn clever enough to follow mine, so I don't buy this "spell it out for me" act of yours and think it's a bit suspicious from a good veteran player.

And you're welcome to scumread and/or question me for those statements lacking detail.

I'm not compelled by your level of solving, especially before this ghug tunnel, and I find specific actions like your unjustified Boat vote an hour out because brain was on the lead wagon D1 last game the exact sort of behavior I'd expect from scum trying to use the schtick as a shield.

The best way to change my mind is to do more solving, but obviously changing my mind doesn't necessarily have to be your goal.

[KoalaAttack]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

Koala, you were Mafia last game and did a terrific job looking townie and never seemed to have any problems hiding your "secret knowledge". So why do you think it's that hard for other players?

But I definitely slipped in the process – I distinctly remember GM worcej going in the God Thread "OMG Koala just lost the game for Mafia, what an obvious slip!" ... But no-one happened to catch it.

I think every Mafia who tries to Townie slips – the question is, do the real Townies catch it, or miss it like the Town did that slip of mine worcej mentioned last game, no?

[Hamilton Brian]

##VOTE Kak

The early setup-focused participation and thread-clogging followed by a drop in activity reminds me of the time I caught him day one.

Glad it was noticed as well (the heavy participation early on). I don't think I've got the context of your experience but I can see how it'd inform your POV.

dislike this post now that kak flipped

Intriguing. What do you dislike about it? Me quoting ghug? My sheeping of ghug? The post and relation to the outcome?

[Hamilton Brian]

And why did you encourage TFB to self-vote?

[ghug]

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

Koala, you were Mafia last game and did a terrific job looking townie and never seemed to have any problems hiding your "secret knowledge". So why do you think it's that hard for other players?

But I definitely slipped in the process – I distinctly remember GM worcej going in the God Thread "OMG Koala just lost the game for Mafia, what an obvious slip!" ... But no-one happened to catch it.

I think every Mafia who tries to Townie slips – the question is, do the real Townies catch it, or miss it like the Town did that slip of mine worcej mentioned last game, no?

A meta comment: I think you're going to get extra pushback if you continue to use "slip" this way. It's not really the colloquial "slip up", it's reserved for overt betrayals of knowledge.

Worcej is also notorious (and he's far from alone in this) for not being able to put himself in the mind of a player once he has perfect information.

[Jamiet99uk]

Scum mech talk all the time.

Ghug is right. As scum, it's useful to talk about mechanics because you don't need to lie about them, in principle. Talking about mechanics is an opportunity to fill the thread with content and look like you're participating, without mentioning your team-mates, falsifying reads, etcetera.

Do you think this is the same for a closed setup?

Yes, even more so, in fact, because they could speculate endlessly and not even need to care too much about being right!

[Jamiet99uk]

I am happy to. How am I being opaque? I am 100% transparent about what I'm doing.

I claim the PR of the Townue Heel. I will troll and rile up the Mafia, and get them to engage. More engagement == mode data for the rest of us to analyze. Just like the mystery AwesomeNinja who shot Kak (way to go!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(pro ... wrestling)

Ooh. Are you a wrestling fan?

EdenKoala: Yes I am! I talked about kayfabe in Mafia Chat during the last game.

RealKoala: I wouldn't say a fan, I used to think Pro Wrestling was the stupidest thing ever. Then I randomly came across an article about Gorgeous George and read all about Heels and I got fascinated by the performative psychology of making out yourself to be the villain on purpose and getting people basically buy that.

Fantastic.

I love the psychology of wrestling. Some of my all time faves include Bobby Heenan, heel Mr. Perfect, Ted DiBiase, Stan Hansen.

[KoalaAttack]

A meta comment: I think you're going to get extra pushback if you continue to use "slip" this way. It's not really the colloquial "slip up", it's reserved for overt betrayals of knowledge.

Worcej is also notorious (and he's far from alone in this) for not being able to put himself in the mind of a player once he has perfect information.

Interesting – thanks for that.

So are you saying what I'm doing is not a good method?

Or are you saying it's a good method, but I'm mixing up terminology and I should not be calling these little "slip of the tongue" mistakes while pretend-Townie-ing "slips"?

What would you call these instead?

[Jamiet99uk]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

So, you think Ghug forgot to think about the timing of the gunshot because he was too busy reminding himself to pretend to be town?

[Jamiet99uk]

Right, this is me hammered-posting. No blaming anyone, but there's shit rising, and I smelt it on D1.

Got it - checks out now lol

I believe Shit Rising is the name of Jamie's old band, so that explains that.

The name of my band is #Fuckghug

[ghug]

A meta comment: I think you're going to get extra pushback if you continue to use "slip" this way. It's not really the colloquial "slip up", it's reserved for overt betrayals of knowledge.

Worcej is also notorious (and he's far from alone in this) for not being able to put himself in the mind of a player once he has perfect information.

Interesting – thanks for that.

So are you saying what I'm doing is not a good method?

Or are you saying it's a good method, but I'm mixing up terminology and I should not be calling these little "slip of the tongue" mistakes while pretend-Townie-ing "slips"?

What would you call these instead?

I think in this specific case, you're looking for a gotcha and failing to recognize that I was looking to confirm that there wasn't strong evidence of you as the vig, not to confirm that you weren't the vig. In general, I think it's a fine way to look at things, but I'd call it lazy or scummy rather than a slip.

[Jamiet99uk]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

Koala, you were Mafia last game and did a terrific job looking townie and never seemed to have any problems hiding your "secret knowledge". So why do you think it's that hard for other players?

Great question.

1 point to Rdr

[ghug]

Got it - checks out now lol

I believe Shit Rising is the name of Jamie's old band, so that explains that.

The name of my band is #Fuckghug

Yeah, Shit Rising broke up.

[Jamiet99uk]

3 hours remain until end of night.
If you have night actions please submit them to myself or darg before deadline.

##SHOOT BOZO