M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[Jamiet99uk]

Just getting to jamie’s outrage at bozo and anyone else who “scumread” him. Passionate jamie seems to pretty much be town jamie.

Minor clarification:

Bozo did not scumread me at the point when he voted for me.

He has admitted this.

What do you think about that?

I'm definitely not townreading bozo, but voting someone you don't scumread day 1 for reactions is very normal.

Sure, it's just important to me to have a correct understanding of the narrative.

He's now said that, at EoD, he kept his vote on me because I had voted for him. So, for kinda OMGUS reasons.

[Hamilton Brian]

[

I am not sure what exactly to take away from this, but I just noticed that your original note appears inaccurate, Brian.

Duly noted and good catch. I didn't recall worcej's original when I was noting Kak's big post. Regardless, outcome still stands.

[KoalaAttack]

Well, I was wrong about Kak and TFB. Sorry TFB.

Good job Vig, but I still think shooting D1 is a poor choice.

Does this imply you believe there is another Vig so it's useful to mention the last bit?

Very interesting to put the red part through the Town/Mafia motivations filter.

Hey, The Guide Works! No wonder I have been The President since the times of the Garden of Eden. Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the awesomest of all?

Koala, why are you asking stupid questions for the sake of asking?

If there are another Vig he can't obviously shoot D1 can't he?

Anyway I don't think there is another Vig, it was just a comment because over a sucess like this shot people make bad moves like last game when it probably costed us the game.

Not D1 but they could shoot N1 – and I presume if it's a bad move to shoot D1 it's a bad move to shoot N1, still before any additional new info from the NK, right?

[KoalaAttack]

@Koala

Did you post in Master thread by mistake?

I think ghug was suggesting there is a delay or condition mechanism wtt vigshot.

Yes I did post in the main thread – and I already PMed brainbomb and messaged Darg on Discord to remove it. I apologize. Attempting to quote from there with 2 tabs open, and it went there by mistake.

[KoalaAttack]

Koala. I vote C

Thank you – received

[brainbomb]

@Koala

Did you post in Master thread by mistake?

I think ghug was suggesting there is a delay or condition mechanism wtt vigshot.

Yes I did post in the main thread – and I already PMed brainbomb and messaged Darg on Discord to remove it. I apologize. Attempting to quote from there with 2 tabs open, and it went there by mistake.

GM NOTE
As someone who has done this several times by accident over the past so many years, we dont usually have ability to delete posts. I know I do not. Darg maybe does, but this is not a big deal and was an honest mistake. No worries. Carry on.

[KoalaAttack]

Koala, stop being so opaque.

I am happy to. How am I being opaque? I am 100% transparent about what I'm doing.

I claim the PR of the Townue Heel. I will troll and rile up the Mafia, and get them to engage. More engagement == mode data for the rest of us to analyze. Just like the mystery AwesomeNinja who shot Kak (way to go!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(pro ... wrestling)

Ooh. Are you a wrestling fan?

EdenKoala: Yes I am! I talked about kayfabe in Mafia Chat during the last game.

RealKoala: I wouldn't say a fan, I used to think Pro Wrestling was the stupidest thing ever. Then I randomly came across an article about Gorgeous George and read all about Heels and I got fascinated by the performative psychology of making out yourself to be the villain on purpose and getting people basically buy that.

[KoalaAttack]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

[Hamilton Brian]

Re-reading Kak, they made a point to at least mention, if not directly interact with, every player in the game. Now the quantity/quality of those interactions are debatable, but they didn't purposefully avoid any particular person. Just working through in my own head that mafia would probably hope to keep a broad distance through the game.

[ghug]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

So you're suggesting that I knew you weren't town and thus hadn't shot Kak?

[worcej]

I was hoping to learn something from catching up on what I missed, but I really didn’t.

The Koala schtick hate is interesting and seems to be growing. Is it really that distracting to you all? It’s weird but he is communicating his thoughts at least.

EdenKoala says:

The funny this is – Koala was repeatedly told during the past 2 games that being annoying, or hypocritical, or rude or any of these things is all NAI. And yet somehow, just a bit of silly impersonation roleplaying riles some of the supposedly very experienced Mafia folks up so much... funny, eh?

Maybe someone will slip in the process of being riled up?

It is definitely weird.

[KoalaAttack]

...
2) you're not drawing any sort of conclusions that suggest desire to solve, which is an important component of this process.
...

...
2) <Koala's conclusion Suspecting ghug>
...

...
2. The fact that information is imperfect doesn't mean it's not useful. You're drawing a false dichotomy. I don't know how this would be a scumslip regardless. I can't imagine the mafia has greater knowledge than they should about whether you shot Kak unless you're one of them.
...

Hi ghug, I have a follow up question then. Please check out the above. The details of my Conclusion or case on you are irrelevant here.

What irks me is that If you read my posts in isolation, you will see that I am certainly *trying* to solve. Now, you could say "Koala, your solving is shite". Or you could say "Koala, I disagree with your conclusions". This has to do with the Quality of my solving skills.

But you didn't say that. You have said, on a couple ocasions now, that I am not even trying solve – which is manifestly untrue. This has to do with Motivation of my solving.

My question for you is: how come you are not telling me I'm solving badly, but instead keep pushing the false narrative that I'm not even trying? (I invite everyone to read me in isolation and decide for themselves on the "trying" part.)

So, when I try to solve, and that includes some suspicions of yourself among others – and you repeatedly say I'm not trying to solve, what does that make me think? It makes me thing you are dismissing my solving attempts because you are the suspicion target.

[worcej]

I'm wanting to fuck right out of here.

Koala, stop being so opaque.

Town, fucking get ti otgether. Death of Kak was a bonus, not an invitation to sit on laurels.

This seems way too aggressive for me…

Context of the thread wasn’t needing this aggression.

[ghug]

...
2) <Koala's conclusion Suspecting ghug>
...

...
2. The fact that information is imperfect doesn't mean it's not useful. You're drawing a false dichotomy. I don't know how this would be a scumslip regardless. I can't imagine the mafia has greater knowledge than they should about whether you shot Kak unless you're one of them.
...

Hi ghug, I have a follow up question then. Please check out the above. The details of my Conclusion or case on you are irrelevant here.

What irks me is that If you read my posts in isolation, you will see that I am certainly *trying* to solve. Now, you could say "Koala, your solving is shite". Or you could say "Koala, I disagree with your conclusions". This has to do with the Quality of my solving skills.

But you didn't say that. You have said, on a couple ocasions now, that I am not even trying solve – which is manifestly untrue. This has to do with Motivation of my solving.

My question for you is: how come you are not telling me I'm solving badly, but instead keep pushing the false narrative that I'm not even trying? (I invite everyone to read me in isolation and decide for themselves on the "trying" part.)

So, when I try to solve, and that includes some suspicions of yourself among others – and you repeatedly say I'm not trying to solve, what does that make me think? It makes me thing you are dismissing my solving attempts because you are the suspicion target.

Before last night, I saw no effort to try to solve. The argument was accurate at the time. Now you've expanded to scumreading me, which has some positives (a stated opinion, OMGUS is townie) and some negatives (only one opinion, the logic is very tenuous). Are you arguing that you've shown some effort to solve beyond that?

[worcej]

Right, this is me hammered-posting. No blaming anyone, but there's shit rising, and I smelt it on D1.

Got it - checks out now lol

[ghug]

Right, this is me hammered-posting. No blaming anyone, but there's shit rising, and I smelt it on D1.

Got it - checks out now lol

I believe Shit Rising is the name of Jamie's old band, so that explains that.

[rdrivera2005]

Does this imply you believe there is another Vig so it's useful to mention the last bit?

Very interesting to put the red part through the Town/Mafia motivations filter.

Hey, The Guide Works! No wonder I have been The President since the times of the Garden of Eden. Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the awesomest of all?

Koala, why are you asking stupid questions for the sake of asking?

If there are another Vig he can't obviously shoot D1 can't he?

Anyway I don't think there is another Vig, it was just a comment because over a sucess like this shot people make bad moves like last game when it probably costed us the game.

Not D1 but they could shoot N1 – and I presume if it's a bad move to shoot D1 it's a bad move to shoot N1, still before any additional new info from the NK, right?

Shooting N1 could be valid in some situations (you can target the counter of a town miskill for example, or Vig suspects he might be the NK). But I don't see a good case for a N1 shot on this game.

[KoalaAttack]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

So you're suggesting that I knew you weren't town and thus hadn't shot Kak?

No, I'm suggesting because it's harder to say things "as I would if I knew less than I actually do" it's easier to make a mistake while doing that.

I am suggesting that real Townies put in more effort into actually trying to solve vs Mafias who are merely pretending to solve.

Is that a reasonable assumption? Please discuss.

[rdrivera2005]

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

My assumption is it requires effort to constantly remind yourself, as Mafia, "I'm not supposed to know the alignments of anyone" ... and it's easy to slip into accidentally saying or doing something utilizing your secret knowledge of everyone's alignment when you are a Mafia pretending to Town.

Is this a wrong line of thinking here?

Koala, you were Mafia last game and did a terrific job looking townie and never seemed to have any problems hiding your "secret knowledge". So why do you think it's that hard for other players?

[brainbomb]

3 hours remain until end of night.
If you have night actions please submit them to myself or darg before deadline.