MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

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rdrivera2005
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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3041 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:14 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:35 pm
On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?
This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3042 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:17 pm

damo666 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:45 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:33 pm
Great, I am really relieved I didn't loss the game.

If I am alive tomorrow I will try to re-read and dig deeper so whoever is the last scum please kill me...
Whoever is scum you will be alive. You can't kill yourself and Balki and Chaqa have to keep you to create the suspicion you are the dark horse.

So I fully expect I will be the NK.
I think we both should put some effort this night to help the surviving one to decide.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3043 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:20 pm

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3044 Post by damo666 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:21 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:17 pm
damo666 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:45 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:33 pm
Great, I am really relieved I didn't loss the game.

If I am alive tomorrow I will try to re-read and dig deeper so whoever is the last scum please kill me...
Whoever is scum you will be alive. You can't kill yourself and Balki and Chaqa have to keep you to create the suspicion you are the dark horse.

So I fully expect I will be the NK.
I think we both should put some effort this night to help the surviving one to decide.
OK

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3045 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:26 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:14 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:35 pm
On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?
This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.
lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3046 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:30 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:20 pm
@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.
Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3047 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm

@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:
I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim
That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3048 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:26 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:14 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:35 pm
On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?
This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.
lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?
lfischl wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:18 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:14 pm
damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:05 pm
CLAIMS

Balki: VT
Bozo:
Bo:
Bunny: PR [not doctor]
Chaqa: VT
damo: VT
Koala:
lfischl: VT
rdr: VT
worcej: doctor
Also updated scum list because someone asked for that,
Chaqa bozo Koala
This was on D3.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3049 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:35 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:30 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:20 pm
@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.
Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.
Nothing is going to make any of us "clear."

But I think it is remarkable how focused lfischl is on me on Day 1. His first four posts are about me or directed to me.

If someone gets a PM with secrets in it. And one of the secrets is that I am his teammate. I think it would be very unusual for him to direct his first four posts (more than half of his Day 1 posts in fact) to me or about me.

I am not saying I am clear, of course. I am saying that is strong evidence that I am not on lfischl's team. I am not one of lfischl's secrets. It is evidence of an "unpair."

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3050 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:37 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:26 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:14 pm


This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.
lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?
lfischl wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:18 pm
lfischl wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:14 pm
Also updated scum list because someone asked for that,
Chaqa bozo Koala
This was on D3.
Ah, you are correct. I missed that.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3051 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:37 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:20 pm
@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.
I will check it out.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3052 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:39 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm
@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:
I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim
That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.
Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3053 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm

Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3054 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:43 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:35 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:30 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:20 pm
@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.
Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.
Nothing is going to make any of us "clear."

But I think it is remarkable how focused lfischl is on me on Day 1. His first four posts are about me or directed to me.

If someone gets a PM with secrets in it. And one of the secrets is that I am his teammate. I think it would be very unusual for him to direct his first four posts (more than half of his Day 1 posts in fact) to me or about me.

I am not saying I am clear, of course. I am saying that is strong evidence that I am not on lfischl's team. I am not one of lfischl's secrets. It is evidence of an "unpair."
I see your point, but you were also driving the thread, with first serious vote and then a claim. He made two posts directed to you and then two directed to Bo, one of them he said he finds you defensive but probably town. I won't give you town cred for this.

Interesting lfishcl included both you and Chaqa at his D2 scumreads.

I need to re-read Bozo, but it's a lot more messages and I also need to work.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3055 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:45 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:39 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm
@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:
I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim
That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.
Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.
I don't understand this argument.

The vote was 6 lfischl, 2 Bozo, 1 Damo, 1 Chaqa.

You are saying that lfischl knew that he was going to be chopped, and he would have thought that whomever he had his vote on would "link himself to his teammate." Aren't you using the opposite of that logic right now, that his vote "delinks him from his teammate"? Why wouldn't Scum lfischl apply the same logic you are applying right now?

So you are saying that we should assume that you are not scum because scum wouldn't have wanted to have his vote on you when he died?

In the world where the scum team is Bozo/Chaqa/lfischl, what should we expect lfischl to do when he is about to be chopped?

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3056 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:46 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm
Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)
I'd be interested to hear that from rdrivera and/or Damo if they believe it.

I am skeptical of players offering insights on their own meta, and I think you can understand why.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3057 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:48 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:43 pm
I see your point, but you were also driving the thread, with first serious vote and then a claim. He made two posts directed to you and then two directed to Bo, one of them he said he finds you defensive but probably town. I won't give you town cred for this.
You should. But it's okay.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3058 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:55 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:45 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:39 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:32 pm
@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:


That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.
Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.
I don't understand this argument.

The vote was 6 lfischl, 2 Bozo, 1 Damo, 1 Chaqa.

You are saying that lfischl knew that he was going to be chopped, and he would have thought that whomever he had his vote on would "link himself to his teammate." Aren't you using the opposite of that logic right now, that his vote "delinks him from his teammate"? Why wouldn't Scum lfischl apply the same logic you are applying right now?

So you are saying that we should assume that you are not scum because scum wouldn't have wanted to have his vote on you when he died?

In the world where the scum team is Bozo/Chaqa/lfischl, what should we expect lfischl to do when he is about to be chopped?
Vote Bozo, since he's up like 4 votes and it makes Bozo look good.

Wasting your vote on another wagon there was one reason I was suspicious of Bozo.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3059 Post by Chaqa » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:55 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:46 pm
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:40 pm
Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)
I'd be interested to hear that from rdrivera and/or Damo if they believe it.

I am skeptical of players offering insights on their own meta, and I think you can understand why.
To be honest, it is a little hypocritical coming from me in general, since I vary my playstyle by whatever way the wind, my ADHD, and my various levels of sobriety take me.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#3060 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:56 pm

I guess that the remaining mafia player is likely to be Tough Guy. Do we think that's true?

I feel like scum team likely does not kill Bunny last night if they do not have Tough Guy, but I'm not sure about that.

I'm also not sure it matters, but I wonder if anyone has thoughts on it.

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