MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[KoalaAttack]

Thank you! Yes I found that green http://mafia.peterlund.se/ page – very nice indeed, especially for someone who wants to focus on the logic of actions!

[ghug]

I am not sure how to contribute to this grand discussion, so I will now role-play my username.

A sleepy koala awakens...



I have 3 silly questions and 1 real one for the town-folk:



Silly 1)

What is a NAI?


Silly 2)

What is an AAR? "After Action Review" like a separate discussion after the game?


Silly 3)

Obviously this will change as the day goes long but ...

Does this mean you are allowed to change your votes before the day ends? I thought I read all the rules but must have missed this bit.



Real 1) Y'all obviously have a long & rich history of prior games with each other and knowing each other's personalities. I don't – so I will ignore all the fluff and only focus on the logic of actions :)

So, for the fake/real CWV discussion – assuming, hypothetically, that claimed CWV is not a real CWV for a second, and there is another real one in play ... My question is: would claiming help or hurt the other real CWV?

As I understand it: If it would hurt them, then fake-claiming CWV feels like a Mafia thing to do. If it it would help them, then fake-claiming CWV feels like a Town thing to do. Of course, if the claim is real this reasoning becomes irrelevant.




Bonus Wisdom) Forget Oxy, Eucalyptus is where it's at.



... back to sleep now.

S1. Not Alignment Indicative. Everything is alignment indicative because we're all human (except bozo) and imperfect, but it's useful shorthand for an action that doesn't point to someone's alignment.

S2. After Action Report, I think. Balki's saying he's done what he's done and if you just want to crucify him for it, you're better off doing it after the game. Whenever you actually do that is up to you, since it certainly has bearing on the game.

S3. Sure are. Vote early and often; it's helpful to give a record of your opinions and voting patterns give great info once we start catching mafia. http://mafia.peterlund.se/ is our vote tracker (and I think has some other useful info). I'd suggest getting acquainted.

R1. Basically every argument for or against before still applies, but there are added considerations. Scum knows Balki's alignment, so either:
He's scum, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions. It could also be baiting a counterclaim if Balki thinks the vet claiming is a bad call.
He's town, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions, while potentially drawing a kill from the mafia either knowing that he will likely kill one of them back or that they'll have wasted a kill on a vanilla townie. I don't think a counterclaim is significantly more appealing than claiming was to begin with because there's no certainly Balki is scum even if he's not the vet.

Do you have any thoughts on other players? I know it can be a bit overwhelming, but you're not tied to any of your opinions, it helps us read you if you're saying things, and it's good to get conversation flowing in general.

[BunnyGo]

Thank you! Yes I found that green http://mafia.peterlund.se/ page – very nice indeed, especially for someone who wants to focus on the logic of actions!

Some things that took me a while: when you click the "game status" link, you get a heads up of the current vote count.

If you scroll down, you see the vote tracker, but notice some of the 3 letter name short cuts are blue: click them, and jump to the point in the game when the vote was made!

Scroll down farther and see posting statistics. Click a name, and see all their posts that day.

Back on the first page, the "Search among all messages" link can be useful too to check whenever 1 player says a word, or another player's name. Stuff like that if you care.

[KoalaAttack]

Thank you BunnyGo and ghug!

I don't have other thoughts on players yet. Most things so far seem pretty NAI as you just explained without the context of personal histories.

I guess voting to end would feel slightly more in the interest of mafia as I understand it, but it would require a snowball of those, right?

[KoalaAttack]

Oh wait! I have another thought on players. You should never kill koalas, or vote to kill koalas. Being a koala-killer is a truly horrible thing to do, and should always be avoided if you have a shred of decency in your heart.

[Hamilton Brian]

After playing many games with Damo (several in a row as his scum partner), my internal thinking about how I sense him being scum or not is "bored"/"interested".

I get the impression that he doesn't enjoy being scum, and prefers being town (he's never confirmed this). So when he's scum, he's usually more business, and on point, but having less fun and more "bored".

When he's town, he's usually looser, enjoying the hunt, and less bored.

Compare his opening in this game with a quick search of the most recent game when he was scum. No banter, took questions seriously instead of f***ing around.

Just my first impression of him. I find it gets more obvious in later game, but I won't be voting for him today.

Thanks; I think it's been so long since I played (aside from a quick sub-in for someone that blew their cover immediately) that I have no registry of folks' playstyles. Only a few stand out.

[Hamilton Brian]

R1. Basically every argument for or against before still applies, but there are added considerations.

Scum knows Balki's alignment, so either:

He's scum, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions. It could also be baiting a counterclaim if Balki thinks the vet claiming is a bad call.

He's town, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions, while potentially drawing a kill from the mafia either knowing that he will likely kill one of them back or that they'll have wasted a kill on a vanilla townie. I don't think a counterclaim is significantly more appealing than claiming was to begin with because there's no certainly Balki is scum even if he's not the vet.

Thanks for breaking it down like that.

Reminds me of a game from a couple of years ago. I pulled doctor. Somewhere in the middle of the game Ezio declares, "I'm the doctor." I'm thinking, "No you effing are not!" I'm all giddy because I'm thinking that we caught a confirmed scum when in reality, they were probably playing to bait it out. They never explained it to me post-game so I can only surmise it fits your town scenario.

It certainly has given us a lot more to talk about and I think ultimately buys Balki time at night.

[Hamilton Brian]

Thank you BunnyGo and ghug!

I don't have other thoughts on players yet. Most things so far seem pretty NAI as you just explained without the context of personal histories.

I guess voting to end would feel slightly more in the interest of mafia as I understand it, but it would require a snowball of those, right?

I think you're going to enjoy this game.

I think you're pretty accurate about posters being NAI. Many have played several games with one another and can spot some of their "tells." This is also a VERY low volume of posts to sift through. In some regards it's made the game easier to start (less to read) but then it's hard to get a good read on some personalities.

In my opinion, it requires a very strong compelling reason to hammer the end. I'm cynical and suspicious enough to think that it's usually mafia-driven, but it's not.

[Hamilton Brian]

I assume Yav is going to burst in here tomorrow with a flurry of posts?

Some other very low-level posters ATM.

Then we get into the EMX dilemma; do we vote out the low-volume poster out of principle?

[Hamilton Brian]

The Gambler role looks fun. An interesting dilemma though; how worth it for them is it to push the person they've wagered on? Gaining an item for "winning" would be good for them, but it's a bit of a fraught role.

And I'm done talking to myself. Off to bed.

[yavuzovic]

I assume Yav is going to burst in here tomorrow with a flurry of posts?

Some other very low-level posters ATM.

Then we get into the EMX dilemma; do we vote out the low-volume poster out of principle?

Coming real quick
also
Hey everyone, it's been a while huh? Did anyone miss me?

[ghug]

I assume Yav is going to burst in here tomorrow with a flurry of posts?

Some other very low-level posters ATM.

Then we get into the EMX dilemma; do we vote out the low-volume poster out of principle?

Coming real quick
also
Hey everyone, it's been a while huh? Did anyone miss me?

I did.

[yavuzovic]

I love you ghug.

[yavuzovic]

##CALL GM:
Are one-use items and mafia actions consumed the night they are roleblocked?

[KoalaAttack]

I have another question – does voting No‑Kill mean no-one gets killed by the vote?

And which side does it help more on Day 1 in your experience?

[ghug]

I have another question – does voting No‑Kill mean no-one gets killed by the vote?

And which side does it help more on Day 1 in your experience?

Yes, if No-kill wins, nobody dies.

It tends to only happen late in games for mechanical reasons if it happens. Conventional wisdom suggests that the only real way we get information about the mafia is through votes, failed or successful, and the discussion around them, and that letting mafia direct more 100% town deaths is worse for town than rolling the dice in the early game even when odds aren't that great.

[yavuzovic]

Why are people so anxious to play the game, D1 is pointless until the last five minutes anyway

This was my thoughts as well about Balki’s statements. Felt a little too try-hard for the first ~8 hours of the game.

But wouldn't you expect Balki to be aware of this? I think mafia would try not to bring in much attention. Of course this can go WIFOM and repeat but the discussion has to spark somewhere and I don't think being engaged in a serious manner - even if it is impossible to know anything without concrete info - is scummish.

[bo_sox48]

Judging Balki by what you think he would do is a great way to misread Balki.

[ghug]

Judging Balki by what you think he would do is a great way to misread Balki.

Judging Balki by what you think a typical person would do is a great way to misread Balki.

[bo_sox48]

Fair