MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

I googled WIFOM – interesting concept.

The fun bit is we aren't even playing the same game!

I don't know what's the Mafia equivalent, but it's like comparing the game theories of Prisoner's Dilemma vs Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma. I am playing a one-off game new to me, for now. Y'all are in a series. A marathon indeed.

Sure, but you can assess some things. So for example, you never asked why I suspect you're town; especially since you're the new guy and from that perspective it's a 1st iteration one-off game for all of us when you're concerned.

Also, you can look for slips, signs that somebody doesn't know something they should if they were town (or scum). Or does know something they shouldn't.

Alright, let's play slips.

Isn't this here:

For example, koala: you’re currently my strongest townread (for reasons unimportant to this story, but I’ll elaborate if asked).

followed by the above, kind of like baiting? And then baiting again when the original fails? Like, you reeeeeally want to share?

Question for the group: What kind of read is this? Is this a mini-slip? In which direction?

Slips are more about known information that shouldn't be known, like scum assuming someone is town without justification in a mechanical argument, or a townie forgetting how many mafia they are.

[ghug]

I am not reading 8 pages of worcej crying lmao, good grief

This is like when mommy and daddy are fighting and you're happy because they're being horrible to each other and not you.

[ghug]

You're on webDiplomacy, we're all liars here, and most of us pretty good at it

Definitely hasn't read the whole game lol.

[KoalaAttack]

Sure, but you can assess some things. So for example, you never asked why I suspect you're town; especially since you're the new guy and from that perspective it's a 1st iteration one-off game for all of us when you're concerned.

Also, you can look for slips, signs that somebody doesn't know something they should if they were town (or scum). Or does know something they shouldn't.

Alright, let's play slips.

Isn't this here:

For example, koala: you’re currently my strongest townread (for reasons unimportant to this story, but I’ll elaborate if asked).

followed by the above, kind of like baiting? And then baiting again when the original fails? Like, you reeeeeally want to share?

Question for the group: What kind of read is this? Is this a mini-slip? In which direction?

Slips are more about known information that shouldn't be known, like scum assuming someone is town without justification in a mechanical argument, or a townie forgetting how many mafia they are.

OK, so it's NAI?

[ghug]

Alright, let's play slips.

Isn't this here:



followed by the above, kind of like baiting? And then baiting again when the original fails? Like, you reeeeeally want to share?

Question for the group: What kind of read is this? Is this a mini-slip? In which direction?

Slips are more about known information that shouldn't be known, like scum assuming someone is town without justification in a mechanical argument, or a townie forgetting how many mafia they are.

OK, so it's NAI?

Eh, I don't agree with worcej that Bunny is always helpful and nice to new players, so your long interaction is certainly noteworthy, but I don't know what to make of it yet. Definitely no slip there.

Just figured I'd get the terminology straight.

[worcej]

Slips are more about known information that shouldn't be known, like scum assuming someone is town without justification in a mechanical argument, or a townie forgetting how many mafia they are.

OK, so it's NAI?

Eh, I don't agree with worcej that Bunny is always helpful and nice to new players, so your long interaction is certainly noteworthy, but I don't know what to make of it yet. Definitely no slip there.

Just figured I'd get the terminology straight.

Can I ask why you don’t agree? Can you name a situation where he wasn’t nice to new people?

[KoalaAttack]

I keep slamming my head into the Koala's brain because I honestly think they are town and I desperately want to drag them to their senses about the conclusion they are driving too.

My brain hurts

[ghug]

OK, so it's NAI?

Eh, I don't agree with worcej that Bunny is always helpful and nice to new players, so your long interaction is certainly noteworthy, but I don't know what to make of it yet. Definitely no slip there.

Just figured I'd get the terminology straight.

Can I ask why you don’t agree? Can you name a situation where he wasn’t nice to new people?

He's notorious for seeing new people as opportunities to goad slips, for one. This is also the friendliest I've seen him be to someone maybe ever.

[KoalaAttack]

It's the same as right now: I claimed doctor. So you've accomplished (1) by not believing me, and that's unfortunate for town but is what it is, and are set on killing me because you don't believe it.

Sorry worcej I missed to address this bit.

Just to clarify: I do not "not-believe" your Doctor claim. And I don't believe it either. I have no info one way or another and am treating this entire episode as NAI.

Especially given that the role you claim is the Doctor. BTW, a question for the group and/or GMs – is it intentional on the part of Game Rules that Doctor and Quack Doctor are named like that so a Quack Doctor I could 100% honestly claim Doctor simply without mentioning that they are also a duck?

[ghug]

It's the same as right now: I claimed doctor. So you've accomplished (1) by not believing me, and that's unfortunate for town but is what it is, and are set on killing me because you don't believe it.

Sorry worcej I missed to address this bit.

Just to clarify: I do not "not-believe" your Doctor claim. And I don't believe it either. I have no info one way or another and am treating this entire episode as NAI.

Especially given that the role you claim is the Doctor. BTW, a question for the group and/or GMs – is it intentional on the part of Game Rules that Doctor and Quack Doctor are named like that so a Quack Doctor I could 100% honestly claim Doctor simply without mentioning that they are also a duck?

Misleading "honesty" usually goes poorly.

[bozotheclown]

top 3 scum suspects survey:

BunnyGo: yavuzovic, damo, bo_sox
bozo: yavuzovic, bo_sox, rdrivera
Balki: BunnyGo, damo, ghug
lfischl: yavuzovic, Chaqa, BunnyGo/Balki
worcej: Chaqa, bo_sox, bozo
ghug: bo_sox, lfischl, yavuzovic
damo: BunnyGo, lfischl, yavuzovic
rdrivera: damo, Chaqa, lfischl
KoalaAttack: worcej, ghug, BunnyGo

Bozo, do you think this survey is up to your usual standard?

I am not sure if you mean the quality of the survey or the results. Assuming you mean the quality of the survey, it is not as good as the dog survey, but I don't think there is a mechanism in this game that can be exploited for useful town information like the dog check, and even that almost got me mis-killed D2 in M1023.

[ghug]

top 3 scum suspects survey:

BunnyGo: yavuzovic, damo, bo_sox
bozo: yavuzovic, bo_sox, rdrivera
Balki: BunnyGo, damo, ghug
lfischl: yavuzovic, Chaqa, BunnyGo/Balki
worcej: Chaqa, bo_sox, bozo
ghug: bo_sox, lfischl, yavuzovic
damo: BunnyGo, lfischl, yavuzovic
rdrivera: damo, Chaqa, lfischl
KoalaAttack: worcej, ghug, BunnyGo

Bozo, do you think this survey is up to your usual standard?

I am not sure if you mean the quality of the survey or the results. Assuming you mean the quality of the survey, it is not as good as the dog survey, but I don't think there is a mechanism in this game that can be exploited for useful town information like the dog check, and even that almost got me mis-killed D2 in M1023.

It just feels like what ChatGPT would come up with if I described you and asked for a survey, is all.

Have you drawn any conclusions from it? Why did you choose to do it?

[bozotheclown]

I keep slamming my head into the Koala's brain because I honestly think they are town and I desperately want to drag them to their senses about the conclusion they are driving too.

But Chaqa is a special case of lurking and lack of effort atm - he thinks I'm just going to immediately be "better" about handling my role when I am under suspicion after one game? History shows I buckle quickly when I am a PR because of my excitement and frustration that I am exposed. Take a stroll down the bot to see the numerous games where I have had to claim and then subsequently did flip once the scum decided to NK me is proof of that. Why would I just stfu and wait until the very last second to claim this time around?

Couple this with the absolute lack of meaningful content for him - he's just as lurky and worthless as lfischl is, but at least lfischl is saying they are busy IRL

In M76 you were the doctor and you never claimed even though you were online as we mis-killed you D1.

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, do you think this survey is up to your usual standard?

I am not sure if you mean the quality of the survey or the results. Assuming you mean the quality of the survey, it is not as good as the dog survey, but I don't think there is a mechanism in this game that can be exploited for useful town information like the dog check, and even that almost got me mis-killed D2 in M1023.

It just feels like what ChatGPT would come up with if I described you and asked for a survey, is all.

Have you drawn any conclusions from it? Why did you choose to do it?

I think this is a useful survey to do every game because it forces the mafia to go on record with scum reads, it shows the town "POE", as Balki put it, and sometimes the town consensus scum reads are fairly accurate. I have not drawn any conclusions from it, but I think it is a good reference point to look at when/if we reveal a scum.

[bozotheclown]

OK, so it's NAI?

Eh, I don't agree with worcej that Bunny is always helpful and nice to new players, so your long interaction is certainly noteworthy, but I don't know what to make of it yet. Definitely no slip there.

Just figured I'd get the terminology straight.

Can I ask why you don’t agree? Can you name a situation where he wasn’t nice to new people?

BunnyGo gave you an example himself, with kgray, but that was game related as he was trying to get her mis-killed. That was also M54, looking at that game again I still question BunnyGo saying he has no recollection of Balki from it.

[BunnyGo]

Eh, I don't agree with worcej that Bunny is always helpful and nice to new players, so your long interaction is certainly noteworthy, but I don't know what to make of it yet. Definitely no slip there.

Just figured I'd get the terminology straight.

Can I ask why you don’t agree? Can you name a situation where he wasn’t nice to new people?

BunnyGo gave you an example himself, with kgray, but that was game related as he was trying to get her mis-killed. That was also M54, looking at that game again I still question BunnyGo saying he has no recollection of Balki from it.

What a strange thing that would be to lie about. Even when I'm scum, I'm mostly honest about everything. Even my lies are based in truths.

[BunnyGo]

@worcej: why did you claim your specific PR role? As you point out, not knowing which roles are out there is harder on scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 2.4:

worcej (3) - KoalaAttack(End), Chaqa(End), yavuzovic
yavuzovic (3) - BunnyGo, bozotheclown, damo666
Chaqa (2) - bo_sox48, worcej
bo_sox48 (1) - ghug
BunnyGo (1) - Balki Bartokomous
damo666 (1) - rdrivera2005

NOBODY is currently scheduled to gain access to the God Thread.

11 hrs 51 minutes to end of Day 2.

Lfischl still needs to vote.

[BunnyGo]

So it seems there's no hooker? Most of the way through D2 and nobody claimed RB'd, and nobody did that vague "should we claim if we were RB'd?" question they get when they are Vanilla Town and get the RB message.

Other (less likely) options:

Scum thought HB was doctor and would self-save, so they RB'd him.

Someone was roleblocked and decided not to share that information with the class.

The Hooker decided to take a night off.

[BunnyGo]

I was wondering if the scum team would try the gutsy play of claiming that they were RB'd to hide the makeup of the scum team.

After typing that I realized they'd have trouble keeping it up when nobody else would be RBd in the future...